Chicago Show us Figures... (1 Viewer)

[arnhem44mad]

So new US ww2 figures look to be released soon!

What are your thoughts on the unit/division and time period?

M43 Jackets, M37 wool trousers, m-1938 leggings, could be accurate for Market Garden if they are Glider borne troops. Or D-Day/Normandy Campaign or maybe just general late war excluding Bulge? Although just add a little fake snow and you have bulge figures!

They look good, like the figure with tommy shouting and BAR gunner!

*Edit* New info acquired.

The m43 jacket was not issued in the ETO until much later after D-Day. The 82nd and 101st airborne were issued them upon returning to England for rearming/re-equipping. Apparently General Bradley did not like the design of the jacket. They were also issued to forces involved in the Anzio landing prior to the landing as experimental uniform.

That being said some officers managed to accquire them pre June 6th.

So in conclusion they are probably a later than Normandy campaign setting as they look like general infantry with the leggings. I do like the tan webbing! They may also pass for gliser infantry!

Scott

 

[The Military Workshop]

So new US ww2 figures look to be released soon!

What are your thoughts on the unit/division and time period?

M43 Jackets, M37 wool trousers, m-1938 leggings, could be accurate for Market Garden if they are Glider borne troops. Or D-Day/Normandy Campaign or maybe just general late war excluding Bulge? Although just add a little fake snow and you have bulge figures!

They look good, like the figure with tommy shouting and BAR gunner!

*Edit* New info acquired.

The m43 jacket was not issued in the ETO until much later after D-Day. The 82nd and 101st airborne were issued them upon returning to England for rearming/re-equipping. Apparently General Bradley did not like the design of the jacket. They were also issued to forces involved in the Anzio landing prior to the landing as experimental uniform.

That being said some officers managed to accquire them pre June 6th.

So in conclusion they are probably a later than Normandy campaign setting as they look like general infantry with the leggings. I do like the tan webbing! They may also pass for gliser infantry!

Scott

Scott,

I thought you suggested in another thread that Andy could consult you due to your extensive knowledge. Regarding your comments and edit about the jacket it would appear it is not so straight forward after all and your post indicates your attention to detail can change within a few minutes.

Whilst everybody, including Andy and other manufacturers wants complete accuracy your post here proves it is not possible if somebody is trying to pinpoint a particular time point as you seem to want to do. I have zero knowledge of uniforms and equipment. When the collector displays US figures I doubt many make the distinction between say a few days after D Day or say four months later. I recall you commenting about the Saving Private Private Ryan figures and saying they did not have some equipment that they would have had on the beach landing. The figures are clearly not involved in a beach landing under heavy fire and the great majority of the movie was spent in urban / rural areas.

Here is a SPR uniform point somebody mentioned to me recently. It was to do with Captains bars on Tom Hanks helmet. Apparently that did not happen. Now do you think Stephen Spielberg, Dale Dye and their experts knew the correct way should be no bars on the helmet. The person who told me this said they wanted it to show Hanks was the leader. No idea if this story is true but some here might know about rank bars on helmets.

.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

So new US ww2 figures look to be released soon!

What are your thoughts on the unit/division and time period?

M43 Jackets, M37 wool trousers, m-1938 leggings, could be accurate for Market Garden if they are Glider borne troops. Or D-Day/Normandy Campaign or maybe just general late war excluding Bulge? Although just add a little fake snow and you have bulge figures!

They look good, like the figure with tommy shouting and BAR gunner!

*Edit* New info acquired.

The m43 jacket was not issued in the ETO until much later after D-Day. The 82nd and 101st airborne were issued them upon returning to England for rearming/re-equipping. Apparently General Bradley did not like the design of the jacket. They were also issued to forces involved in the Anzio landing prior to the landing as experimental uniform.

That being said some officers managed to accquire them pre June 6th.

So in conclusion they are probably a later than Normandy campaign setting as they look like general infantry with the leggings. I do like the tan webbing! They may also pass for gliser infantry!

Scott

Scott, The M43 jackets were manufactured in 1943. Where did you get the information that they were not issued to ETO Troops until after June 1944 ?

Wayne

 

[arnhem44mad]

Scott, The M43 jackets were manufactured in 1943. Where did you get the information that they were not issued to ETO Troops until after June 1944 ?

Wayne

Digging on the internet mate. US Militaria forum. I'm a member of many groups on Facebook of US GO equipment/uniform collectors. I found a thread on the US mil forum. Then to back thisnis I asked on a few of the pages.

Just because they were made in 1943 doesn't mean they wete issued then. A lot of the time troops never received items until almost a year later depending on where abouts they were deployed.

Scott

 

[Guy]

Scott, The M43 jackets were manufactured in 1943. Where did you get the information that they were not issued to ETO Troops until after June 1944 ?

Wayne

Just to end the discussion :
The M43 jackets were issued to some combat units in Italy in the winter of 1943-1944; (the 3th Infantry Division at Anzio)
The US troops fighting in France received the first shipments in the fall of 1944
Troops fighting in the BoB will be seen wearing a mix of M41's, tankers, M43's and wool overcoats
Guy

 

[Guy]

Scott, The M43 jackets were manufactured in 1943. Where did you get the information that they were not issued to ETO Troops until after June 1944 ?

Wayne

Ammo, food and petrol got priority over clothing in the ETO
guy

 

[arnhem44mad]

Just to end the discussion :
The M43 jackets were issued to some combat units in Italy in the winter of 1943-1944; (the 3th Infantry Division at Anzio)
The US troops fighting in France received the first shipments in the fall of 1944
Troops fighting in the BoB will be seen wearing a mix of M41's, tankers, M43's and wool overcoats
Guy

Cheers mate!

Scott

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Ammo, food and petrol got priority over clothing in the ETO
guy

Guy, Yes....Sad but true ! :salute::

Wayne

 

[binder001]

Yes, the M1943 combat uniform was adopted and production started in 1943 but it was 1944 before they were able to be sent overseas in quantity. The troops in Italy got the new gear first as GIs had suffered through the winter of 1943-44 in the Italian mountains. It is usually reported that the 3rd Infantry Div. was first to get a full issue. The ETO troops got theirs later. Partly because Bradley reportedly didn't like the look. One source mentioned that he thought they were too "unmilitary", which is really funny as the <1943 became the defacto pattern for military field jackets all over the world. Today one looks at that style of wear and says "that's a military jacket". Some researchers have commented that a few units in Normandy had M1943 jackets (units that came into ETO after Opn Overlord). As mentioned several times above, the M1943 jacket did not become a common sight in the ETO until fall/winter. Newly arrived units came with them, older units got them via the supply chain, but slowly. The western Allies were victims of their own success - through the summer and early fall they advanced faster than the original logistics plan allowed for. The European rail system was a shambles thanks to our air forces and trucks were just not really efficient as the trips grew longer. There were ships with winter clothing riding at anchor off Normandy or at Cherbourg while American front line troops were shivering in the cold weather. Gas, ammo, and food had the priorities to get moved forward. That's why the channel ports, and especially Antwerp were important - the transit times were cut down and Antwerp could handle the volumes needed to keep modern armies supplied. So, yes, during the fall and winter it was common to see the M1941 jacket as most common, followed by the "tankers' jacket" and the M1943. The heavy wool overcoat was still the most common winter item. Even mackinaws that were supposed to be for truck drivers and such were sent forward to make up for the deficiencies in cold weather gear.

The paratroopers' uniforms were changed partly because the Army wanted to simplify uniform supplies, so the M1943 uniform was provided to them. The airborne units had the advantage of having parachute riggers who had training and supplies to modify uniforms. The riggers would add the large thigh pockets to the M1943 combat pants. Once source mentioned that some riggers would salvage the thigh pockets from the M1942 jump trousers and add them to the M1943 pants. This would have the troops with light tan-green (OD#3) pockets on trousers that were darker green (OD#7). Riggers were also famous for making unique ammo pouches for the web gear and doing other uniform modifications.

Back when I was young (and not so rotund) I did some WW2 reenacting. My personal favorite uniform for the field was an M1943 jacket over the standard wool shirt and trousers. The canvas leggings looked "cool" but after wearing them for one battle in the mud I bought a pair of M1943 "double buckle" combat boots. MUCH easier to take on and off when wet and/or muddy. I love tanker jackets, but the M1943 jacket was more practical for an infantryman (IMHO). Trivia - did you know that the M1943 jacket was not equipped with a zipper? They were button-front jackets. The BIG advantage of the M1943 jacket was that it could have a liner fitted (designed just for that purpose) that really added to the warmth. They also had a button-on hood (later designs of US field jackets had the hood fit inside the collar). One doesn't often see troops in the ETO with the hoods on the M1943 jackets, but one will sometimes see the hoods worth with other uniforms (they couldn't button on but were worn as separate items).

So, as the weather cooled in Europe in the late fall one could see GIs with all sorts of coats and jackets. They gathered and improvised to stay warm.

Gary B.
Waverly, NE