Wearing Berets as opposed to helmets (1 Viewer)

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

Re the subject of why certain soldiers prefer berets to “tin pots”… Speaking personally as an old “bootneck” our guys would always, as soon as it was reasonably safe, ditch the helmet and switch to the beret. Call it bravado… esprit de corps foolishness or whatever but it’s a bit like “flying the flag”. Whenever we were operating in any hostile area we always liked to show the “locals” exactly which British unit they were dealing with. Certainly in the bad old days in Northern Ireland the “Provisionals” didn’t like it overmuch when the Paras or Royal Marines took over their patch.

Plus, wearing a beret is a darn sight more comfortable than a tin hat… and it pulls the birds easier!

Best wishes,
Andy C.

 

[Wraith]

… and it pulls the birds easier!

And you make that sound like almost an afterthought, rather than the main reason.

 

[OldDragon]

a sure sign ... of a true strategist.

OD

 

[redhugh]

Northern Ireland was a prolonged conflict resulting in many iconic images, protagonists, fortifications and vechicles, over the years, any chance we'll ever see anything like that in the future?
Still have to look twice when I see mcguinness and paisley laughing together in photo's.

 

[damian]

Well one must give credit to the Sikh regiments. Those guys never wear tin hats as it would mean having to take off thier Turban which is against thier religion. That is why they aslo refuse to wear motorbike helmets. I believe even in WWI they did not wear tin hats.
Regards
Damian

 

[Harrytheheid]

Northern Ireland was a prolonged conflict resulting in many iconic images, protagonists, fortifications and vechicles, over the years, any chance we'll ever see anything like that in the future?
Still have to look twice when I see mcguinness and paisley laughing together in photo's.

Still have to look twice when I see mcguinness and paisley laughing together in photo's

Same here RD.
Don't go there H, just don't H.
Sorry RD, I honestly don't care where you are on this, I am definitely not going there.

All The Best
H

 

[Cardigan600]

Yo Trooper this takes me back lol, being in the tanks it looked smarter to shrink your beret (you know the score on that) and wear it pulled down both sides it looked real cool, but as you know its only supposed to be down one side. Anyway our Regimental Sergeant Major see's me one day with it down both sides called me a flower pot man lol.
Punishment had to wear my steel helmet 24/7 for two weeks, Breakfast, dinner & tea time sitting in the canteen, can you imagine the stick I got off the rest of the Regiment. (Happy Days).
Bernard.

 

[damian]

Yo Trooper this takes me back lol, being in the tanks it looked smarter to shrink your beret (you know the score on that) and wear it pulled down both sides it looked real cool, but as you know its only supposed to be down one side. Anyway our Regimental Sergeant Major see's me one day with it down both sides called me a flower pot man lol.
Punishment had to wear my steel helmet 24/7 for two weeks, Breakfast, dinner & tea time sitting in the canteen, can you imagine the stick I got off the rest of the Regiment. (Happy Days).
Bernard.

Now imagine you were a youngster 130 years ago. They didn't have berets but they did have very cool cherry red tights. Maybe it was fashionable to wear them high. You know it appealed to the ladies. What would your RSM have said to you then.
The mind boggles
Regards
Damian

 

[Currahee Chris]

Wearing a beret has actually become quite a hot topic here in the US Army over the past 10 years.

General Shinseki, one of the JCS's during President Clinton's reign thought it would help build esprit d'corps to make the black beret, a proud tradition of the Rangers, part of every soldiers uniform- replacing the "garrison cap"- the typical softcap that looks like a baseball cap with camo patterns.

Needless to say, this idea caused an outroar amongst the Ranger batts and rightfully so. I think the General's idea was noble but I guess he even underestimated the power and presitge a beret has to those who wear them. His sales pitch was that he wanted the entire Army to embrace the culture and "Hooahness" of the Rangers- something which cannot happen as the Rangers are several degrees more high speed than most troops.

Anyway, the outcry become so heated that the Army allowed Rangers serving in Ranger batts to wear the desert brown beret as a symbol of their eliteness and to maintain their esprit d'corps.

We do have red berets here in the US Army- any "5 jump chump" who makes it through airborne school is authorized to wear the red beret if they are serving in an airborne unit- like the 82nd Airborne division.

We of course have the super hard charging snake eaters- Special Forces- who wear the Green berets- that hasn't changed- seeing a group of those guys walking by with those green berets and the "De Opresso Liber" crest flashing against the sun is really really awesome.

We also have a blue beret running around out there- I believe the airforce authorizes their mp's (called sp's) to wear them.

As I think we can all see, as expressed by some of the comments from Mr. Neilsen, the beret has quite a tradition and has quite a loyal following to those who have or currently wear them. It's not just a piece of material that is on the soldiers head- it is really a telltale signature of who the soldier is and what he (or she) is all about.

STANDS ALONE!!
CC

 

[theBaron]

I don't think the beret should ever have been introduced into the American armed forces in the first place. With all due respect to our British forum colleagues in this forum, it doesn't look American. And I say that against the backdrop of our uniform history, which shows heavy influence at major time points since the French and Indian War from foreign military fashions (British, then French, then even Prussian). But by the Spanish-American War, we had established a field uniform that was distinctly American (eg, campaign shirt or blouse, campaign hat).

Prosit!
Brad

 

[Mister Dave]

I am a little up in the air about the beret as standard head gear for U.S. personnel. When done right, it looks pretty nice, but ...its not always done right. The garment as issued is basically unusable or unwearable and needs to be gently shaved thin, bits of backing to reinforce the crest need to be trimmed away, the whole thing wetted down and worn while drying to attain the desired basic shape conforming to the individuals head, and then un-natural creases and folds created to acheive the final shape.

When you see some of the high speed guys that Chris mentioned coming down the street, they look sharp, but you also tend to see a lot of laughable Chef Boyardee looking styles on those less squared away. Plus it is hard to confidently and consistently jam on your head in the proper fashion with one hand as you are walking out of buildings.

MD

 

[damian]

With no intention to upset anyone I must just say that I agree with Dave. Different armies have different appearances and what looks good in a particular cultural mileau doesn't work in another. The American forces have a distinctive look as do the commonwealth forces. Putting American GI's in berets will be equivalent to putting British squaddies in kepis or the French Foreign Legion in Kilts.
Just my thoughts as a non military outsider
Regards
Damian

 

[Mister Dave]

To put my observations a bit more succinctly, the U.S. Army beret when properly modified looks brilliant on bald high speed guys, and not so brilliant on REMF's like myself, or fatheads/pinheads, or females with other than tightly slicked back hairstyles.

MD

 

[Halo]

Chris- "red beret" are you serious? Last time I checked they were maroon. And the comment about any "5 jump chump" can wear them going to an airborne unit-----you had better check yourself on that comment.

The only people that should wear the beret in the U.S. forces are the elite. SF, Rangers and Paratroopers (on status).

 

[binder001]

American army headgear has often gone funny ways trying to look as "military" as proud European formations and also favoring utility in the field. The US version of the French kepi was common in the American Civil War and stayed on as a "dress" hat for quite a while even as broad brimmed "campaign" hats of several styles became more common in the field. There was the flirtation with the "German" dress helmet in the late 1800s, the on to various versions of the "bus driver" hat over the years. In the 1950's came the use of the starched "Castro" fatigue hat (I haven't seen a formal history, but I'll bet that the identification of the US fatigue hat with the Cuban leader hastened its removal from the US uniform). VietNam introduced the "boonie" hat to the field uniform. In the 1970s there was a flirtation with black Stetson hats for Cavalry troops - the Air Cav units seemed to pick up on that one. I remember reading an article in "Armor" magazine when a black beret was suggested for Armor branch in the late 1970s. The author quoted " you will learn that hatch holding latches slip, and that berets are soft and don't protect your head". Although I am not in the mlitary, I like wearing military caps. Personally, I liked the BDU cap - except that it was hot in summer, otherwise a practical piece of headgear.

Gary

 

[Currahee Chris]

Chris- "red beret" are you serious? Last time I checked they were maroon. And the comment about any "5 jump chump" can wear them going to an airborne unit-----you had better check yourself on that comment.

The only people that should wear the beret in the U.S. forces are the elite. SF, Rangers and Paratroopers (on status).

As you were CC, as you were

the berets on my KC's RD's do look maroon- it was a slip- admittedly, a mistake but trying to get the point across either way- terribly sorry for the error

Yes- the British Airborne's are red and US Army jump qualified, and again, this gets back to when I was in, which is pushing almost 20 years now, were, as HALO, points out maroon. As HALO points out, which was what I was trying to convey is that there is a US Army precedent for wearing the maroon berets. And yes, as he mentions it's wearable by troopers in jump status units- I felt that if I had interjected the "on status" designator, I may have lost some of my audience.

I agree with HALO's points from top to bottom and side to side- and Mr. Dave brings up the best points about the problems with wearing them- elite US army units should be wearing them- they earned them in spades. The rest should just continue ranger rolling those garrison caps to look the part

I think the US Army high command, and, again, feel free to correct me, Gen Shinseki had a commendable idea but in practice it just didn't jive. The unit I was with also had half the guys running around with berets and the the other half still in garrison caps- it was really really sloppy.

Damian- initially, I agreed with the notion that the beret did make the uniform look unequivocally European but once I started getting serving with these ranger and SF types, they love those berets and are very much an essence of who they are as soldiers. We borrow very heavily on European military tradition- the salute, etc in our uniformology so the beret is a natural fit and was being handled correctly. At the end of the day, I am not sure we accomplished what Gen Shinseki set out to do as the Rangers were authorized the tan berets anyway- the whole idea, so far as I know, was to adopt the high speed Ranger ethos- if they are allowed to wear the tans, then what has really been accomplished in the end??

No, I agree, the berets are the province of the elite and should have always stayed that way. The idea was a good one but ill fated from the beginning.

 

[Halo]

Its all good.... I had to throw that out there....

 

[Currahee Chris]

Its all good.... I had to throw that out there....

"Specialist CC, Half Right Face, front leaning rest position MOVE!!"

"The push-up, in cadence, EXERCISE!!"

"One Halo, Two Halo, Three Halo......."

We may have just had our first internet "Smoke session"

 

[Currahee Chris]

See fellas- take notes from the pro- this is how you get the ear of King and Country- post an innocuous thread about their figures like i did with General George and the OMG sets and then, he responds. I have a feeling he will take another look here in the next day to see what everyone said on the matter, after all, he started the thread, and then he will see this shameless plug

BANNOCKBURN 1314

And that my friends, is how you lure toy soldier manufacturers into your web of influence

STANDS ALONE!!
CC

 

[thebritfarmer]

I am a little up in the air about the beret as standard head gear for U.S. personnel. When done right, it looks pretty nice, but ...its not always done right. The garment as issued is basically unusable or unwearable and needs to be gently shaved thin, bits of backing to reinforce the crest need to be trimmed away, the whole thing wetted down and worn while drying to attain the desired basic shape conforming to the individuals head, and then un-natural creases and folds created to acheive the final shape.
When you see some of the high speed guys that Chris mentioned coming down the street, they look sharp, but you also tend to see a lot of laughable Chef Boyardee looking styles on those less squared away. Plus it is hard to confidently and consistently jam on your head in the proper fashion with one hand as you are walking out of buildings.

MD

Good lord where do you guys get your berets from? In 20 years of seeing my dad wear his beret every day. I don't ever recall seeing him having to do all that nonsense.