Competition for K&C (1 Viewer)

[Rob]

I have said for a while now that i didn't think there was serious competition for K&C,and i now believe i was probably completely wrong.The quality of HB is very good indeed,i think the new jeeps look superb along with their tanks.And then there is Collectors showcase.Now when they first appeared i thought ugly,ugly ugly.But i have to say i am very impressed with their Tobruk range that i have read about in the latest Toy soldier collector.The faces already look softer and the vehicles look good.I thought that NMA might be up with the best but so long goes by without seeing or hearing anything i'm begginning to wonder whats going on?.However my question to you experts out there is can these other companies sell enough to really challenge K&C?.

There is another point raised by someone on the HB thread.It said (in so many words)that some K&C fans run down other companies as a matter of course.I am a huge K&C fan and i think they will always be my number one company.However i am not so blinkered as to not be able to see quality in others.As my collection is almost exclusively K&C i am very fussy about what i put along side it,but i can see a place for HB's Jeep and winter Panther.And after eating humble pie,possibly something from collectors showcase.I just wanted to say that not all K&C fanatics have tunnel vision.

Rob

 

[maddadicus]

Rob, we need competition to keep KC honest..KC has paid its dues over the years to become a giant in soldiers and vehicles. The quality of their vehicles for $100 is very hard to compete against for the following reasons.
1) KC retired vehicle worth makes it very attractive to any investment bumkin
buy it, forget it, retire it, sell it, make 2-3 times your cost.....
2) Fanatic,dedicated collector base "KC IS KING" adnausium..etc.
3) Establish mfg. in place...no factory roulette
4) Andy's charm...many of his most ardent most deep wallet collectors are also his personal buddies
5) Sheer volume of sales allows for fair price points and fixed costs...very few sale duds in his lines
6) Sheer volume of eras covered....how can a new company pick a niche that is untouched by K/C.

You get the idea.......a competitor must be able to bring to market something that K/C has not touched, is as good as K/C quality, unique item guarenteed to sellout, and be able to come close to K/C price quote.........GOOD LUCK Michael

How about a revised Grant or Lee....The biggest problem is that the current crop of competitors ,except for HB would rather make the same old Tiger or Panther..........

 

[Rob]

Thats a good point,lets have Grants,Comets,Fireflys and crusaders before more Tigers etc.

Rob

 

[Louis Badolato]

There is a perception among some members of this forum that K&C collectors have tunnel vision, and cannot see quality elsewhere. While this may be true in some cases, I think that a fair review of the posts on this forum demonstrates that this perception is for the most part unfair. Considering that I am probably K&C's biggest advocate, and I have stated repeatedly on this forum that Figarti and Honour Bound make not just superior, but far superior armored vehicles, I wonder where the generalization comes from.

That being said, Andy is a brilliant business man, who reinvented the wheel and launched the entire matt 1:30 scale WWII craze that generated competitors like Honour Bound and New Model Army. Companies like Honour Bound and Figarti have made superior armored vehicles in a successful attempt to grab a portion of the income generated by this new group of collectors. Andy has responded by addressing every single complaint about the quality of his armored vehicles (track detail, interior details of cabs with clear windshields, etc.). While his vehicles may not quite have caught up to the vehicles produced by Honour Bound and Figarti, they have dramatically narrowed the gap, without any substantial price increases. This while continuing to produce constantly improving and for the most part vastly superior matt figures. This constant improvement in quality, along with the availability of lower production costs in China than Honour Bound can obtain in Argentina, the judicious retirement of sets which keep up prices in the secondary market, and the wide variety of production themes, make it unlikely that K&C will be knocked from its position at the top in the near future.

But, as I have again said many times, so long as competitiors like Honour Bound and Figarti make better vehicles, and continue to raise the production bar, I will continue to buy their excellent products, while simultaneously reaping the benefits of competition in improved K&C products as well. Its a win-win situation. So Anna and Rick, keep up the good work. And Andy, keep constantly making your products better as well. I may go broke, but I'll certainly enjoy getting there!

 

[Capitolron]

Gentlemen:

I am the King & Country snob.

I freely admit it and will stand up for my prejudice on the Toy Soldier Industry's number one leader. KING & COUNTRY is by far the best Toy Soldier Company in the World - their product ranges, their figure production and simply their attention to detail surpasses all.

I am sure it is politically correct to be inclusive to other manufacturers - but, the truth be told - they fall far behind.

I do think it is great we have other Toy Soldier Companies and I am sure they try hard to keep up with Andy. I am not putting down other companies - just recoginizing what is GOLD PLATED and what is not.

No Other Toy Soldier Company has as many ranges and production line on such a large number of historic events - THAN KING & COUNTRY.

No Other Toy Soldier Company pays as much attention to their clients and seek information on production lines - THAN KING & COUNTRY

No Other Toy Soldier Company has done more for the industry as a whole for increaing quaility, content and apprearance - THAN KING & COUNTRY

Like the old porche commercial : KING AND COUNTRY - THERE IS NO SUBSITUTE !

Those are my two cents from a loyal K&C fan.

Ron

 

[Beaufighter]

I am sorry, but I have to say it-SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE LOBBYIST/POLITICIAN!

 

[damian]

Guys please lighten up. There is life after K and C. Sometimes it feels like the thought police around here. I realize this is teh K and C thread and I am a big K and C collector myself, have been for over 10 years, but I liek other soldiers apart from K and C. There are lots of things they don't do liek Colonial Wars especially the Zulu War and some times they do come up with a dud. I would think that you want this forum to be place where everyone can feel at home not just teh LAH series come to life

 

[Rob]

This is a free and open forum and we are all entitled to say what we think.I agree with Louis in that as there is a difference in standard of vehicles etc this is bound to cause competion amongst suppliers and can only be a good thing for us.As Andy as said before he doesn't like saying K&C are far ahead of the competition in case in gets complacent.

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

I am in agreement with Damian here for the most part. On the Honour Bound thread, it was pointed out that K & C adherents belittle the competition after I said we need to move away from that.

Well, I'll say it again, why does this need to be a competition amongst posters. I obviously am a K & C adherent, if not a fanatic, but I like HB and Figarti as well. This is a pretty big tent for lots of opinions.

Doug (Combat) thinks HB is better. Nothing wrong with that. Others think K & C is better. Nothing wrong with that. Let's just not knock down other companies. I just don't see the need.

Also, let's not forget this is toy soldiers, nothing earth shattering here.

 

[jrsteel]

There's another toy soldier world called the traditional toy soldier. I know a lot of you guys who are into K&C WW2 think traditional toy soldiers are crap. I know guys who collect nothing but old figures and think all of these new matte figures are a joke. You can't compare K&C against traditional toy soldiers. They represent different things. I like it all, in fact I just ordered my first K&C figure the other night. You just have to realize there are different areas to the hobby and one isn't better than the other. It's all good.

 

[Capitolron]

I am in agreement with Damian here for the most part. On the Honour Bound thread, it was pointed out that K & C adherents belittle the competition after I said we need to move away from that.

Well, I'll say it again, why does this need to be a competition amongst posters. I obviously am a K & C adherent, if not a fanatic, but I like HB and Figarti as well. This is a pretty big tent for lots of opinions.

Doug (Combat) thinks HB is better. Nothing wrong with that. Others think K & C is better. Nothing wrong with that. Let's just not knock down other companies. I just don't see the need.

Also, let's not forget this is toy soldiers, nothing earth shattering here.

Brad

I agree - I believe people should not run down other Toy Soldier Producers - but, that doesn't mean we need to be less advocate for our favorite brands either. And since this is the KING & COUNTRY THREAD - it is appropriate place for us to wax on about what we love with our favorite TS Company.

Going on other threads of other vendors and saying lesser things would be very wrong. I for one dont do that and actually stay for the large part on the K&C Thread - where my loyalities lie.

If other collectors have other loyalities - so be it - good for you. But, dont you run me down for my strong loyality to my favorite company on THEIR THREAD. Thats not right either.

Here is where we discuss K&C - and ALL OF US HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK OUR OPINION GOOD OR BAD. I take great offense to being termed "thought police" or a product of "LAH range" - If we love K&C - so what - leave us alone - we are allowed our opinion, especially if it is on the K&C Thread. I think that comment was a little over the top.

The wonderful thing about a free society is freedom of expression.

Ron

 

[Steven Chong]

... On the Honour Bound thread, it was pointed out that K & C adherents belittle the competition after I said we need to move away from that ...

I would characterize it more as dismissing the competition simply because it is not K&C, not belittling. There are quite a number of posts for K&C to produce Napoleonic figures from countries other than Britain and France, ignoring the fact that Frontline has a huge Napoleonic range in realistic matt: BAVARIAN, NEAPOLITAN, ITALIAN, POLISH, IRISH, SWISS, SAXON, NASSAU, WESTPHALIAN, AUSTRIAN, PRUSSIAN, RUSSIAN, AND BRUNSWICK. Britains has come out with an early WWI matt line, but its products are mostly ignored on this forum while collectors speculate what K&C will introduce in its own early WWI line. Whether it is not matching K&C's scale (1/30 to 1/31), style of painting, sculpting, investment potential, etc., many K&C collectors simply are not willing to consider other companies. Yes, K&C's sculpting and painting is superior to its competition, its comparable sets priced lower, and the range of themes the most extensive; but it will be a long time before K&C has an extensive Napoleonic line like Frontline, and there are many ideas K&C will not currently consider because they are preceived to be poor sellers.

 

[Capitolron]

I would characterize it more as dismissing the competition simply because it is not K&C, not belittling. There are quite a number of posts for K&C to produce Napoleonic figures from countries other than Britain and France, ignoring the fact that Frontline has a huge Napoleonic range in realistic matt: BAVARIAN, NEAPOLITAN, ITALIAN, POLISH, IRISH, SWISS, SAXON, NASSAU, WESTPHALIAN, AUSTRIAN, PRUSSIAN, RUSSIAN, AND BRUNSWICK. Britains has come out with an early WWI matt line, but its products are mostly ignored on this forum while collectors speculate what K&C will introduce in its own early WWI line. Whether it is not matching K&C's scale (1/30 to 1/31), style of painting, sculpting, investment potential, etc., many K&C collectors simply are not willing to consider other companies. Yes, K&C's sculpting and painting is superior to its competition, its comparable sets priced lower, and the range of themes the most extensive; but it will be a long time before K&C has an extensive Napoleonic line like Frontline, and there are many ideas K&C will not currently consider because they are preceived to be poor sellers.

Steven:

All that you said is correct - others have done work that K&C has not done.

But, this is the King and Country Thread ! Aren't there other threads out there for other companies? If someone is looking for love of Britain or Frontline - wouldn't their thread be the place to go?

Here we concern ourselves with K&C - other threads do other things....that is why there are other threads Gentlemen.

The rub is that THIS THREAD has the most use (from what I have seen on the forum in the last four weeks) and therefore the jealousy.

Sorry no need for any of us to apologize for King and Country being #1.

With all due respect of course.

Ron

 

[Steven Chong]

... But, this is the King and Country Thread ! Aren't there other threads out there for other companies? If someone is looking for love of Britain or Frontline - wouldn't their thread be the place to go?...

No offense taken Ron, but I was simply using Frontline and Britains as examples in my response on the subject of K&C collectors belittling the competition -- not looking for anyone to love their products.

 

[Capitolron]

No offense taken Ron, but I was simply using Frontline and Britains as examples in my response on the subject of K&C collectors belittling the competition -- not looking for anyone to love their products.

Steven:

For the record - I too own alot of Britians and Conte figures. I am glad there is competition out there. It helps push Andy to make more great figures like the upcomming Civil War "new" Range.

Ron

 

[Combat]

The purpose of the forum is to share information and opinions. So it seems inevitable that comparisons will sometimes be made between competing products. We also have our own opinions on what we like best. For example, I like KC figures better than HB figures. I like HB vehicles better than KC vehicles. That's just my opinion and in offering it I don't intend to "bash" either company. However, when KC comes up on the short end we are more likely to get involved in these types of discussions. Andy has a loyal and well-deserved following - myself included - but it would also be a bit naive not to acknowledge that some folks may have a stake in maintaining KC's reputation or staying on Andy's good side that may influence their viewpoint. That's perfectly fine with me. More power to them, but I sometimes take with a grain of salt the opinions expressed if that is the case.

 

[Capitolron]

The purpose of the forum is to share information and opinions. So it seems inevitable that comparisons will sometimes be made between competing products. We also have our own opinions on what we like best. For example, I like KC figures better than HB figures. I like HB vehicles better than KC vehicles. That's just my opinion and in offering it I don't intend to "bash" either company. However, when KC comes up on the short end we are more likely to get involved in these types of discussions. Andy has a loyal and well-deserved following - myself included - but it would also be a bit naive not to acknowledge that some folks may have a stake in maintaining KC's reputation or staying on Andy's good side that may influence their viewpoint. That's perfectly fine with me. More power to them, but I sometimes take with a grain of salt the opinions expressed if that is the case.

I have nothing to gain from my opinions of King and Country - for a lobbyist that is a big statement.

I am a loyal customer - not a dealer and have nothing to profit from my honest opinion of this terrific, great, and wonderful product.

 

[sceic2]

Some of these very valid postings remind me of some discussions that I have been involved with over the years; Ford or Chevy, US or imports, Chicken or steak, Army vs. Navy, etc.

Competition breed’s innovation, keeps prices down, fosters better customer service and competition allows for choice. Competition is good. Customer loyality is also earned not given or bought.

 

[jazzeum]

Folks,

I'm not really crazy about the direction of this thread so say what you're going to say for another hour or so and then I'm going to remove it.

 

[jrsteel]

Steven:

All that you said is correct - others have done work that K&C has not done.

But, this is the King and Country Thread ! Aren't there other threads out there for other companies? If someone is looking for love of Britain or Frontline - wouldn't their thread be the place to go?

Here we concern ourselves with K&C - other threads do other things....that is why there are other threads Gentlemen.

The rub is that THIS THREAD has the most use (from what I have seen on the forum in the last four weeks) and therefore the jealousy.

Sorry no need for any of us to apologize for King and Country being #1.

With all due respect of course.

Ron

I don't think there are any rules about what threads you can go on. I could be wrong but I don't think the forum was set up with that mindset. I like to read about all of the brands.