Is this a Lost Britains Grail? Set 1613 - UNTOUCHED since 1938? Most perfect factory-ties I've ever seen! Please help! (2 Viewers)

[croscorpion]

Hi everyone,
I'm a new member and I'm looking for some expert advice on a potential purchase. I just stumbled upon something on Catawiki that literally stopped me in my tracks.
I’m looking at what appears to be a Britains Set No. 1613 from the late 30s. I’ve seen many sets, but I’ve NEVER seen factory-ties this clean. I’ve attached some photos and I’m losing my mind over the stringing. Look at how the fibers are integrated with the paint on the officer’s neck – no double holes on the back of the card, no fraying, just pure 1938 factory work.
The description says it’s missing the outer lid, but could this really be 100% factory original despite that? What do the experts here think about the authenticity of these ties? I'm seriously considering bidding on this one but I'm afraid of overpaying, so I wanted to share these detail shots with the community first.
Is this as much of a "Grail" as it looks to me? Please help me decide if this is worth the investment!
Thanks in advance for any insights.

 

[croscorpion]

@Andanna thanks for the like! I'd love to hear your expert opinion on this. Have you ever seen a Set 1613 with ties in this condition? To me, they look like they haven't moved an inch since the day they were tied in London.

 

[croscorpion]

I just noticed another thing - the paint on the gas masks is slightly matte compared to the gloss on the uniforms. Was this common for the 1613 series?

 

[theBaron]

Are you sure those are Britains? They look more like half-round toy soldiers cast from Schneider molds. WWI French infantry, looking at the headgear. Homecasters also used those molds to make US Civil War figures.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Obee]

Are you sure those are Britains? They look more like half-round toy soldiers cast from Schneider molds. WWI French infantry, looking at the headgear. Homecasters also used those molds to make US Civil War figures.

Prost!
Brad

Brad,

I have to agree with you, Britains are round figures, not semi-flat like these.

I think someone has described them wrongly as Briatins.

John

 

[croscorpion]

Hi and thanks for the incredibly detailed feedback, @theBaron and @Obee - honestly want to thank you all for the insights. As a new member, this kind of debate making my decision to buy this set lot harder!
I’ve been staring at those 'semi-flat' comments and, I have to admit, it really worried me. I almost walked away. But then I went back and did a deep dive into every single high-res photo posted on auction, and I found something that gave me goosebumps.
Please, take a look at this macro shot of the base. To my eyes, that rectangular notch on the edge looks like the classic 'smoking gun' of the Britains hollow-casting process from the late 30s. It’s that raw, honest mark of how they poured out the lead—something you just don't see on those Schneider or solid-cast figures.
Seeing that, combined with those beautiful, loose factory ties that haven't been 'suffocated' by a restorer’s paint, makes me feel like I’m looking at a true time capsule.
What do you make of this specific mark? To me, it looks like a game-changer for the identification, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks in advance

 

[theBaron]

Hi and thanks for the incredibly detailed feedback, @theBaron and @Obee - honestly want to thank you all for the insights. As a new member, this kind of debate making my decision to buy this set lot harder!
I’ve been staring at those 'semi-flat' comments and, I have to admit, it really worried me. I almost walked away. But then I went back and did a deep dive into every single high-res photo posted on auction, and I found something that gave me goosebumps.
Please, take a look at this macro shot of the base. To my eyes, that rectangular notch on the edge looks like the classic 'smoking gun' of the Britains hollow-casting process from the late 30s. It’s that raw, honest mark of how they poured out the lead—something you just don't see on those Schneider or solid-cast figures.
Seeing that, combined with those beautiful, loose factory ties that haven't been 'suffocated' by a restorer’s paint, makes me feel like I’m looking at a true time capsule.
What do you make of this specific mark? To me, it looks like a game-changer for the identification, but I'd love to hear your thoughts..
Thanks in advance

Sorry, but these are not Britains. They were cast from molds made by the German firm Gebrüder Schneider (Schneider Brothers), in Leipzig, from around 1890 up till the end of WWII. Some mold makers made replicas of the molds from after the end of the war up to the 2000s (notably Höhmann in Cassell I bought molds from him). Beside the fact that we can match them to the molds, the fact that they are solid is another clue. Britain made hollow-cast fully round figures.

These are Schneider figures, probably cast by a hobbyist who may have sold his figures as a side business. But Schneider figures they are.

Prost!
Brad

 

[croscorpion]

Sorry, but these are not Britains. They were cast from molds made by the German firm Gebrüder Schneider (Schneider Brothers), in Leipzig, from around 1890 up till the end of WWII. Some mold makers made replicas of the molds from after the end of the war up to the 2000s (notably Höhmann in Cassell I bought molds from him). Beside the fact that we can match them to the molds, the fact that they are solid is another clue. Britain made hollow-cast fully round figures.

These are Schneider figures, probably cast by a hobbyist who may have sold his figures as a side business. But Schneider figures they are.

Prost!
Brad

Thanks Brad for info. Do you have some foto of your molds or figurea, thanks in advance

 

[croscorpion]

Hi everyone, First of all, I want to thank you @theBaron @Obee for the heated debate. It’s been a wild ride, and honestly, your skepticism is what pushed me to stop being just a 'romantic buyer' and start being a detective.
I spent the last 12 hours doing a deep dive into the archives, consulting with seasoned collectors of German lead. And I have to say – you were right, but for all the most fascinating reasons. This isn't a Britains Set 1613. It’s something much more intriguing. This is a Gebrüder Schneider (Leipzig) export set (1938-1939).
A collector sent me this note:
'While Britains were the kings of the box, the German manufacturers from Leipzig were the undisputed kings of the card—this specific way of stringing the figures to the insert and the thin, sharp-edged rectangular base are their true signature. The 'bird-like' profile and the surgical precision of the hand-painting tell a story of German discipline that Britains' mass production rarely matched. It was a German masterclass in industrial espionage—taking a British design and 'perfecting' it in Leipzig for fast export to the UK and French markets right before the war. The integrated fibers in the paint and the specific gate marks on the thin, sharp bases are the DNA markers of this specific process.'
So, thank you for the reality check. Ironically, by identifying this as a Schneider instead of a Britains, you’ve helped me realize it's a rare time capsule of pre-war economic warfare that’s personally worth much more to me than a standard Britains.
Cheers to all!

 

[theBaron]

I don't have access to my casting rig right now; everything is at my old house, 25 miles away. But this is a photo of a Schneider mold, to cast a Prussian officer and infantryman, so you can see what we're talking about:



That's from a post in the Facebook group "Verkauf/Tausch Zinnfiguren", https://www.facebook.com/groups/782290488987207/media/photos.

Prost!
Brad

 

[croscorpion]

I don't have access to my casting rig right now; everything is at my old house, 25 miles away. But this is a photo of a Schneider mold, to cast a Prussian officer and infantryman, so you can see what we're talking about:

View attachment 367304

That's from a post in the Facebook group "Verkauf/Tausch Zinnfiguren", https://www.facebook.com/groups/782290488987207/media/photos.

Prost!
Brad

Look amazing wow.
I get tonnight confirmatiom, set I wil bid is 1938 Schneider.