4.7" Naval Gun (1 Viewer)

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snowyowl

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I have two of these guns, pretty much identical and I'm trying to figure out how old they are. I know that Britains made them from 1930s through to the 60s, although there was, I believe a shieldless version earlier. The guns do not have a model no. but have a patent no. 34218/30. Also on the trail is Britains Ltd Patent and Made in England. The paint on the guns is camo (dazzle?). That makes me think possibly 1930 - 1940.John Ruddle's book says that "Earlier version had no catalogue number" and the picture in the book looks very much like my guns. If that is correct the serial no. would be 1264 but in brackets he has 9730 which I'm assuming to be the 1960s version. Does the /30 indicate the patent year? Can anyone tell me how to date these guns?
Thanks!
 

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Hang in there Dan, we do have some brilliant Britains guys, including all the mods, so I am sure someone will come forth with something soon.

Patience :eek:
 
Hi Dan,

Ask and ye shall receive. Sorry that it took so long to reply I am still digging out from our latest move...

There are three distinct versions of this gun with details that will let you ID it to the right block of manufacture time. The gun first appears in a catalogue for a company that sold WBritains in 1902. Therefore its likely that development began in 1900 or 1901 The Boer War made this a very popular item when the British Army used dismounted guns from a navy gunboat. The first gun was without shield and could fire a small shell.

In 1916 it was and added to the WBritains catalogue with no number. The main difference was again the paint and no shield.

In 1933 the set was given a number and modified with two changes. The Shield was added and the firing mechanism was replaced with the one they used for the large Royal Artillery Gun #1201 They probably made this change to save money on the line with parts. Its painting was done in flat or matte Khaki.

1938 they made a variation of this gun in a dark blue grey paint scheme. Not sure how long it was done this way.

The set number changed again in 1962 to 9730 no other changes until discontinued in 1966.

There are a few other guys here with much deeper knowledge than me so you may want to check and see if they can discuss the various patent dates and markings that appear underneath the piece. Opie and Wallace are major authors in the Britains field so any of their books are a must have if you are a serious collector of the old sets.

As for the gun you show it was from the 1933 to 1966 run but that's as much as I can narrow it down for you. Post photos of the other gun please.

Dave
 
Thanks, Dave. That's great information. I can/will post pictures of the other bun but they appear to be identical. I bought them together in an antique shop in Florida last winter. I'd love to have the Opie books, in fact, I was looking at them last night on Amazon and on ABEBooks but unfortunately they are too expensive for me. Books that I do have are Collectors Guide to Britians Model Soldiers by Ruddle. The same gun is in it with what seems to be the same paint but unfortunately neither the picture nor the text really are clear enough. The only other book that I have is Joplin's Toy Soldiers. There is a picture in it of the early matt green version of the gun. The Opie book shows a gun that looks very much like my two but gives two cat. #1264 and 9730 in the description without mentioning differences but does say that the earlier version has no cat. #. I'm going to photograph the second gun and will try to get the camo exact. The picture I posted of the first gun shows the camo as being too obvious.
Thanks for the input.
 
Try the O'Brien book which you can usually get used on Amazon for $10 or less plus postage. Good basic reference
 
Hi There,

The references can be pricy but there are a lot of them out there. One place I have found them is in on line auctions from ebay and vectis and another place in NY called Weiss. Sometimes you get lucky and find several of them in the same lot so keep an eye open and who knows you may get lucky and pick up several at one time. Obriens books are great references and like the guys mentioned they are usually affordable. Remember this hobby is a marathon not a sprint so take your time enjoy it!

Dave
 
Hi Johnny

Great post even if I disagree with his date of 1905. Still quite informative and good photos to support the article.

DAve
 
Yo - Dave. Yes - he may be a year or three out with the first date - but I spotted this article a while ago, and thought it might be a good place to start - as it shows quite a few versions of the beast! The poster is clearly an enthusiast - so thought it might help.

Another good place to spot variations - is to Google images of "Britains Toy Soldier 4.7" Naval Gun" - which is where I first spotted this piece. jb
 
I had read this article. I ran across it when I was searching for info. on my guns. Unfortunately he doesn't show the camo painted gun.
 
Mike Niederman said:
I'd say the camo is a "field application" by a previous owner. I've been collecting Britains photo reference from the net for over 8 years and never run across a camo paint scheme. It was issued at times in pale blue, pale green, grey, and with a silver muzzle as well as the usual allover olive drab.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike - like you - I have never seen that paintwork before - and suspected it MAY have been an application of paint by a previous owner ( maybe even a professional?) - but was waiting to see if anyone could come up with another like it.

I have three collected pics - of a 1902 version - a 1932 version and the much later 1962 version - none of which has this paintwork. jb
 
johnnybach said:
Hi Mike - like you - I have never seen that paintwork before - and suspected it MAY have been an application of paint by a previous owner ( maybe even a professional?) - but was waiting to see if anyone could come up with another like it.

I have three collected pics - of a 1902 version - a 1932 version and the much later 1962 version - none of which has this paintwork. jb
Click to expand...

It is certainly possible that the camo has been added, maybe even probable, but I'm not completely convinced. If you look at John Ruddle's book "Collectors Guide to Model soldiers, Britains" model 1264 you will see the same gun with what appears to be camo paint.
The camo in my picture stands out much more than the paint on my two guns does. I think that may be because I used a flash and that the paint has reflective properties (Dazzle?). I will re-photgraph the gun without flash and try to get a more accurate appearance.
 
I've examined the two guns very carefully and have concluded that the camo has been added by some previous owner, so you guys were right Too bad! :( Now I don't know whether to leave them as is or to re-paint them back closer to them original appearance. This is a little more accurate picture of the paint colours.
IMG_1891.jpg
 
If it was me I would leave them as they are since they have a nice played with look and charm.

Dave
 
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