A Bridge Too Far (2 Viewers)

Capitolron

Capitolron

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Last night I watched a personal favorite : A Bridge Too Far !

Great movie ! I do want to ask one questions from the experts - since I did not read the book - DID MONTY IGNORE HIS OWN INTEL GUYS ON THE LOCATION OF THE SS PANZER DIVISION IN ARNHEM ??

I really caught the Shock on Sean Connery's face - this time - when he is told that they landed on a SS Panzer Division. :eek:

A tip of the hat to the brave British Lads of the Red Devils - one heck of a fight.

Interesting note - Mrs. Phillips was watching the movie with me and then fell alseep during the last 20 minutes - woke her after it was over and said "honey you missed the end of the movie!" - she said - half asleep " honey it was a bridge too far for me...zzzzz" :p ;) :D - She doesnt remember saying that :rolleyes: - too funny !!
 
Capitolron said:
Last night I watched a personal favorite : A Bridge Too Far !

Great movie ! I do want to ask one questions from the experts - since I did not read the book - DID MONTY IGNORE HIS OWN INTEL GUYS ON THE LOCATION OF THE SS PANZER DIVISION IN ARNHEM ??
Click to expand...

Yes!
 
Ron,

No simple answer to the question about "what went wrong?". It was a series of blunders and bad luck that doomed the project. That gives rise to endless 'what if" questions. That's why Market-Garden is so fascinating for historians and war gamers as well as modelers.

Ultimately, Monty bears the responsibility as he was the overall commander and the plan came out of Monty or his staff. The short planning time let a LOT of details slip by, i.e., bad radios, distant LZs, intel on enemy forces ACTUALLY in the region, the ONE narrow road for the ground forces, etc. None of the Allied commanders could conceive that the German military forces could be pulled back together so fast from their rout in France. One small mistake of Monty came back to haunt him. When the 21st Army Group grabbed Antwerp they didn't go on and clear the estuary that 1) allowed use of the port and 2) would prevent the escape of large numbers of Germans from the 15th Army that were caught on the Channel coast. Many of these troops provided the reserve strength to fight against the Garden forces, keeping the British armor from linking with the paras in Arnhem.

Not as exciting as tanks and planes, but think of what a properly functioning communication system would have done for the paras! They could have called in the full force of Allied airpower on the Jerries, could have coordinated their own units better, and could have called for reinforcements and supplies.

Market-Garden drew the Allied advance north of Eisenhower's intended line of advance into Germany. That left a thinly defended gap between the primary thrusts of the US 1st Army and the US 3rd Army. That weak area became the target for the German Ardennes offensive.

Gary
 
Capitolron said:
Last night I watched a personal favorite : A Bridge Too Far !

Great movie ! I do want to ask one questions from the experts - since I did not read the book - DID MONTY IGNORE HIS OWN INTEL GUYS ON THE LOCATION OF THE SS PANZER DIVISION IN ARNHEM ??

I really caught the Shock on Sean Connery's face - this time - when he is told that they landed on a SS Panzer Division. :eek:

A tip of the hat to the brave British Lads of the Red Devils - one heck of a fight.

Interesting note - Mrs. Phillips was watching the movie with me and then fell alseep during the last 20 minutes - woke her after it was over and said "honey you missed the end of the movie!" - she said - half asleep " honey it was a bridge too far for me...zzzzz" :p ;) :D - She doesnt remember saying that :rolleyes: - too funny !!
Click to expand...

Its Boy Browning you got to blame ;)
One Big mistake in the film is the Germans found the plans for market garden on US airborne troops & not British
 
By the way, Ron. Did you know that not only were there SS Panzer Divisions in the Arnhem area, but that the Germans used some Char B1's against the paras? The Germans had some ex-French Char B's that were modified into "flammpanzer" (flamethrower tanks) and several were used in Arnhem. Go get the K&C Char B and get out a paintbrush!

Gary

Reference: German Armor at Arnhem - Concord Publications
 
Gary

I had heard of those Char-B's in Arnhem - wonder if Andy is going to do a re-paint and put some out for the range??

Interesting - hearing from everyone on this subject.

Ron
 
Capitolron said:
Gary

I had heard of those Char-B's in Arnhem - wonder if Andy is going to do a re-paint and put some out for the range??

Interesting - hearing from everyone on this subject.

Ron
Click to expand...

In the flim THEIRS IS THE GLORY - men at Arnhem it show the flamethrower Char -B & real Panther tanks as the film was made in 1946 ;)

A good book with lots of photos is Armour at war series - German armored units at Arnhem
 
Now a flame throwing Char B at Arnhem,that would be most welcome!.Although if we are talking flame throwing tanks i'd still love a Crocodile.



Rob
 
That is a favorite movie of mine. The action around Arnhem is very gripping & I liked the acting of the British and German actors. I built a small replica of the bridge for my son to replay the assault of the German Recon force. That is an amazing piece of film-making. One of the best battle scenes done, I think. I did not know about the 1946 film, and now must try to see it.

The movie, is based on a book of same name of course, and it goes into more detail then the movie can. It is a good read too. I do take some of the things said in it (and the movie) with some caution, as to blame etc. Only because it seems to have a definate case it wishes to present, and may be biased in some ways. That it came close to succeeding argues against it being a crackpot plan. But, I think you would have to read from all the countries involved literature to get closest to the truth. One aspect I think important is that when you say 'Panzer Division' at Arnhem, it means a much smaller force then earlier in the war.

One remarkable detail, was the germans having to throw in everything they could find into the Arnhem fight. They used their odd convelescing 'bad stomach problem' and 'bad Lung problem' battalions into it and literally collected everyone in uniform moving thru the area (on leave, sick, et) at train stations, made ad-hoc units out of them and threw them into the fight. German losses were very high there too. I can't remember clearly, but I think close to British losses at Arnhem.
 
A book which I picked up a year ago but never really looked at until now but seems to be good is Arnhem by A.D. Harvey, published by Cassell & Co. It's part of Richard Holmes' Field of Battle series.

It's available from Amazon UK .
 
I just watched it the other night. I remember going and seeing it in the movie theatres when it first came out. I liked it, but some people thought it was to long, and wondered around to much. It was highly taunted as being one of the greatest WWII films at that time. I guess because it was jam packed with the most popular actors of the day. It was entertaining, but not nearly as intense as SPR. To me, Saving Private Ryan, will be hard to beat. The battle scenes at the bridge, were very realistic, the German burning up in the half track, was deserving. Mike:)
 
The Bridge scene is very intense indeed. You get a real feel for the disproportionate weapons, the great odds the Red Devils were up against. They put up one hell of a fight. But by the end of the scene it has really become a massacre & the humanity of the germans comes out. Many are probably just average soldiers caught up in the conflaguration of that war.
 
The movie of "A Bridge Too Far" also was one of the greatest gatherings of Sherman tanks. They gathered a number of Shermans from Europe, plus built some hollow dummies that were mounted on Land Rovers. The modified the 75mm guns to look like "Fireflies" but didn't do much to the 76mm guns. They even found a tank dozer. Quite an effort at gathering combat vehicles, as well as Jeeps, trucks, etc.

One source said that their repro Horsa gliders should have been capable of flight but insurance wouldn't let them do it.

Too bad the movie was in the days before the use of visually modified ("vis-mod") tanks to simulate the German heavy stuff. The Leopard I's were impressive, but some of the StuG's, etc from "Band of Brothers" would have added to the scenes.

Gary
 
An odd interest of mine is spotting where one film-maker borrows from another. The scene of the new german commander arriving at headquarters reminds me alot of some scenes of Darth Vadar arriving in Star Wars, the music mainly, but also some shots. The bridge movie came first of course!

Yes, the equipment...the real stuff, is awesome to see. I got to take a trail ride with a column of actual WWII jeeps, trucks and a armored car (Red Ball express meeting). It was great! Just the sounds I was hearing going up and down dirt roads on a hill. I remember seeing in the news about an auction off of a major studios props in the late 60's. A actual german tank could be had for $10,000.00 if I remember correct. 10K...too bad I was like 10.
 
I always thought that the German appearance of imperial officers in star wars was kind of funny (they all had sinister British accents, too...:D).
The thing that really gets me, though, is the use of old military arms in star wars. The storm troopers carry resin casts of Sterling 9mm submachineguns, Han Solo has a messed-up broomhandle mauser, I think the sand troopers have MG-43s.
And how about that take off of Commodore Dewey's famous line, when the Imperial officer told a faceless minion on the Death Star "You may fire when ready."
 
Hello Treefroggers

I just remembered ... what's so special for me, about A Brridge Too Far.

My lifetime collection of books, videos, model tanks, planes, ships and toy soldiers ... started with this paperback by Cornelius Ryan, I bought thirty years ago with my first paycheck.

I don't have the book anymore ... but I do have the DVD. Its a pity that Mr Ryan did not complete (to my knowledge) more than the three titles that he is famous for.


OD
 
Being lazy here...could look it up, but what were the two other titles ? Was one 'The Longest Day' ?
 
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