"A little bit of this… a little bit more of that" (2 Viewers)

King & Country

1st Lieutenant
Joined
May 23, 2005
Messages
4,993
Hi Guys,

In response to a few recent “posts” on the forum.

1. ARNHEM FUTURE?
Rest assured we are doing more… it’s just trying to find the right time and place to release ‘em.

2. “Curse of the Tunisian Tiger”
Well, first of all if there had been a “curse” of any description on this great model… me and this forum would’ve heard about it a long, long time ago… About 30 seconds after the release!

Now, a few little facts this “Strictly Limited” item was released over a year ago… November 2007! The original purchaser does say that he bought them but never checked them at the time of purchase. About a month ago he contacted us about the damages and we asked him to contact the dealer from whom he originally purchased the items. That is our “Standard Operating Procedure”.

I have to agree with “AMHUFF1” that a large part of the responsibility for this is with the original buyer i.e.
a) Not inspecting the item upon delivery.
b) Had there been a problem then it could have been dealt with promptly and to everyone’s benefit.

K&C’s policy is always to replace damaged or broken items when reported to us. If a dealer has any problems they notify us immediately and it is replaced or he or she is financially compensated. I’m sure K&C dealers will confirm this.
If a private customer has bought the item directly from us in HK the same applies.

In this case we don’t know how long the original purchaser held onto the boxes before reselling them? We also don’t know how he shipped them or repackaged them? So, problems can and do arise in these circumstances.
No one at K&C wants any of our products to arrive in less than perfect shape however some responsibility must be with the original purchaser as well in checking what they buy… when they buy it.

3. “Wellington’s Comments”
After having read what Wellington had to say I’m still not exactly sure what he meant to say… he professes to still love us but thinks we’re too expensive… OK that’s his opinion, I can live with that. He even thinks I might even be a great guy… Can’t comment on that one, modesty forbids!
Finally, in the last sentence of his original post he declares… “Give a guy an inch and he takes a mile”… please elaborate on that statement.

4. “Alex’s Requests”
1. Drop our prices because you are already paying local tax plus much more than that… I suggest you take that up with your own Governments. It’s those guys who raise, invent and benefit from all those nifty little tax ideas they come up with to deprive you of your hard-earned cash.

2. “Permit dealers to sell below MSRP”
This little beauty has been dealt with lots of times before… here goes again…
a) Dealers deserves to make a decent and reasonable return on their investment.
b) Discounting starts “price wars”.
c) Only the bigger boys survive… smaller dealers go to the wall meaning… less dealers.
d) Less dealers means… less sales… less coverage in the market.
e) Less sales means less new product… more unhappy collectors… read this forum to see how a lot of people want lots of new things… all the time.
I’m sure there’s a whole bunch of people out there who will not agree with what I’ve written BUT (Andy’s favourite word) they are not running a successful company. If they think I’ve got it all wrong and they know better then… Take their life savings (or a big chunk of it) and set up their own toy soldier company and try out all their theories for real!
e) Discounting devalues Product… pure and simple… If you don’t believe me… Where’s the new 21st Century stuff… or the Forces of Valor. Both these companies put their faith in big retailers… Target… Wallmart… Toys ‘R’ Us… who love to discount. And both have lived to regret it.
f) “King & Country who… ?”
On another Toy Soldier Forum a certain Marc T posted the following… “It looks like the K&C fad has ended on the forum, if we do not hear from them every mo, (sic) or two at most, they should be declared dead”.
Well, Marc old buddy, I’ll make a little prediction here and now… K&C and yours truly will be around a lot longer than your particular forum. Reports of our impending doom are greatly exaggerated!

And on that cheerful note I’ll bid one and all a very Merry Christmas and, as we say in bonnie Scotland… A Guid New Year.

Now, you can’t ask more than that… can you?
Love, kisses and lots of great Christmas Pudding.

Andy C.
 
Hi

Are you cherry picking what you answer? I think the deliberately provocative posts are easy to deal with; or actually better off ignored.

I would like your thoughts on the significant increase in costs when comparing your mounted Napoleonics / Crimeans etc - there was some interesting debate on ths

Meery Christmas to one and all

Cheers

Hi Guys,

In response to a few recent “posts” on the forum.

1. ARNHEM FUTURE?
Rest assured we are doing more… it’s just trying to find the right time and place to release ‘em.

2. “Curse of the Tunisian Tiger”
Well, first of all if there had been a “curse” of any description on this great model… me and this forum would’ve heard about it a long, long time ago… About 30 seconds after the release!

Now, a few little facts this “Strictly Limited” item was released over a year ago… November 2007! The original purchaser does say that he bought them but never checked them at the time of purchase. About a month ago he contacted us about the damages and we asked him to contact the dealer from whom he originally purchased the items. That is our “Standard Operating Procedure”.

I have to agree with “AMHUFF1” that a large part of the responsibility for this is with the original buyer i.e.
a) Not inspecting the item upon delivery.
b) Had there been a problem then it could have been dealt with promptly and to everyone’s benefit.

K&C’s policy is always to replace damaged or broken items when reported to us. If a dealer has any problems they notify us immediately and it is replaced or he or she is financially compensated. I’m sure K&C dealers will confirm this.
If a private customer has bought the item directly from us in HK the same applies.

In this case we don’t know how long the original purchaser held onto the boxes before reselling them? We also don’t know how he shipped them or repackaged them? So, problems can and do arise in these circumstances.
No one at K&C wants any of our products to arrive in less than perfect shape however some responsibility must be with the original purchaser as well in checking what they buy… when they buy it.

3. “Wellington’s Comments”
After having read what Wellington had to say I’m still not exactly sure what he meant to say… he professes to still love us but thinks we’re too expensive… OK that’s his opinion, I can live with that. He even thinks I might even be a great guy… Can’t comment on that one, modesty forbids!
Finally, in the last sentence of his original post he declares… “Give a guy an inch and he takes a mile”… please elaborate on that statement.

4. “Alex’s Requests”
1. Drop our prices because you are already paying local tax plus much more than that… I suggest you take that up with your own Governments. It’s those guys who raise, invent and benefit from all those nifty little tax ideas they come up with to deprive you of your hard-earned cash.

2. “Permit dealers to sell below MSRP”
This little beauty has been dealt with lots of times before… here goes again…
a) Dealers deserves to make a decent and reasonable return on their investment.
b) Discounting starts “price wars”.
c) Only the bigger boys survive… smaller dealers go to the wall meaning… less dealers.
d) Less dealers means… less sales… less coverage in the market.
e) Less sales means less new product… more unhappy collectors… read this forum to see how a lot of people want lots of new things… all the time.
I’m sure there’s a whole bunch of people out there who will not agree with what I’ve written BUT (Andy’s favourite word) they are not running a successful company. If they think I’ve got it all wrong and they know better then… Take their life savings (or a big chunk of it) and set up their own toy soldier company and try out all their theories for real!
e) Discounting devalues Product… pure and simple… If you don’t believe me… Where’s the new 21st Century stuff… or the Forces of Valor. Both these companies put their faith in big retailers… Target… Wallmart… Toys ‘R’ Us… who love to discount. And both have lived to regret it.
f) “King & Country who… ?”
On another Toy Soldier Forum a certain Marc T posted the following… “It looks like the K&C fad has ended on the forum, if we do not hear from them every mo, (sic) or two at most, they should be declared dead”.
Well, Marc old buddy, I’ll make a little prediction here and now… K&C and yours truly will be around a lot longer than your particular forum. Reports of our impending doom are greatly exaggerated!

And on that cheerful note I’ll bid one and all a very Merry Christmas and, as we say in bonnie Scotland… A Guid New Year.

Now, you can’t ask more than that… can you?
Love, kisses and lots of great Christmas Pudding.

Andy C.
 
Thanks for posting Andy,very glad to hear K&C are aiming to be around for a lot longer yet,especially as i am saving like a madman for next years releases!.Also glad to hear Arnhem will continue,however its all down to that naughty Ron chappie for peddling the outrageous 'Being retired' story,after all the range is still pretty young compared to the others.

Cheers and merry xmas

Rob
 
How about the first of each month? Say, for the next 24 months or so? ;)

And how am i supposed to be able to afford food?.No problem!.My body fat will keep me going for some considerable time.....great idea of yours Simon!;)

Rob
 
Thanks for posting Andy,very glad to hear K&C are aiming to be around for a lot longer yet,especially as i am saving like a madman for next years releases!.Also glad to hear Arnhem will continue,however its all down to that naughty Ron chappie for peddling the outrageous 'Being retired' story,after all the range is still pretty young compared to the others.

Cheers and merry xmas

Rob


LOL ! :p :p :p

I can't believe anyone would take those comments about Arnhem seriously ! (OK - Andy got it - your retiring the Arnhem range next year - sorry about jumping the gun. )
 
LOL ! :p :p :p

I can't believe anyone would take those comments about Arnhem seriously ! (OK - Andy got it - your retiring the Arnhem range next year - sorry about jumping the gun. )


:D:D:D

You must remember Ron there are some impressionable folks around here who know nothing of your history!;)

You remind me of that ACW Cavalry commander who was always tearing up and down the lines causing havoc and mayhem with his troopers wherever he went,what was his name?

Rob
 
Hi

Are you cherry picking what you answer? I think the deliberately provocative posts are easy to deal with; or actually better off ignored.

I would like your thoughts on the significant increase in costs when comparing your mounted Napoleonics / Crimeans etc - there was some interesting debate on ths

Meery Christmas to one and all

Cheers

Where's the cherry picking? I fail to see that. People are always complaining about prices. That's the nature of we (or is that us?) collectors to do that. However, Andy has come on and explained that very well. Moreover, and no offense to Andy, I think Steven Chong has done an even better job of explaining the prices. Now, I don't like the prices increases but we look at this from our selfish point of view (I have to pay more), which has caused many of us to cut back (which nobody likes and I've seen some frustration in posts to that effect), but this is a hobby for us. For Andy and King & Country, this is a business. I know it's hard not to do but we shouldn't mix emotion (what we want but may not be able to get) with the dollars and cents calculations that Andy must make on a daily basis.

Now, I'll probably get bashed for these thoughts but that's my opinion.
 
Now, I'll probably get bashed for these thoughts but that's my opinion.

Not from this quarter you won't.
It's not like K&C are the sole company who are having to increase prices. Everyone's at it.
 
Yep no one likes price rises but its going on everywhere right across the board.I'm sure our hobby is not the only to suffer right now.

Rob
 
Where's the cherry picking? I fail to see that. People are always complaining about prices. That's the nature of we (or is that us?) collectors to do that. However, Andy has come on and explained that very well. Moreover, and no offense to Andy, I think Steven Chong has done an even better job of explaining the prices. Now, I don't like the prices increases but we look at this from our selfish point of view (I have to pay more), which has caused many of us to cut back (which nobody likes and I've seen some frustration in posts to that effect), but this is a hobby for us. For Andy and King & Country, this is a business. I know it's hard not to do but we shouldn't mix emotion (what we want but may not be able to get) with the dollars and cents calculations that Andy must make on a daily basis.

Now, I'll probably get bashed for these thoughts but that's my opinion.
I agree; it has been much discussed and adequately explained.
 
Gazza

I can help with the Crimean pricing as it is me that sets it!! (well and Mike (my Dad). Andy can if need be answer the NAPs question but i agree been spoken about!.

The Crimean product is made for US in the UK. So there a few more costs involved as acommission than the normal factory run for K&C themselves.

We pay a design fee to Andy and K&C
We pay for the box design and manafacture
We pay for the models themselves
We pay for the import into the UK
We pay for the Shipping into the UK and i can tell you over a TON in toy soldiers is not cheap!
We pay for the VAT.....boo

This all is factored in before we make a profit on an item. Which makes them higher than the NAPS.

Also if you get teh CRW24SL we had designed the certificate and got them printed.

So a commisioned figure or set is always going to be higher than a direct K&C run!

Tony
 
I am relatively new to this forum but I note some posters here are all too ready to jump on someone who dares to question or challenge anything from KC.

Why when someone questions price increases am I suddenly accussed of being emotional. A little patronising dont you think?

It was a simple, logical question, without any emotion and that it why if you look at my posts there is NO K&C bashing or cheap shots. I have criticised posters who high jacked the post into anti KC, anti Andy and even (god knows how) anti Scottish thread.

I have thanked the Neville's for their response previously and again they are prompt and forth right on their response. Just as they are when I buy from them.

What I posted was why did Andy take all the easy posts; look at the one on Napoleonics and Red Lancer (c.7000 views combined, so maybe a wee bit of interest!!!); would you not think it warrants a comment? Andy has not responded; so the discussion was a bit one sided.

Once again, merry Xmas

Cheers

I agree; it has been much discussed and adequately explained.
 
You know - I havent seen any other producer of Toy Soldiers making figures well below K&C cost ?

Especially with the detail and artistic look that these figures have. :cool:

Although, with the economic tidal wave coming - it will be interesting to see Andy's business model on how he can keep producing on the level he is currently at and not have to raise prices again ?

The fact is everything goes up in time - it is ridiculous to expect that prices would remain the same or close to in a ten year span. IMHO. ;)
 
Kit figures have gone up in price, too, so it's not just a question of the finished figures, or even of K&C as a subset of finished figures.

For example, Imrie-Risley kits were still around $12 apiece for foot figures this summer, and they're now up around $17 apiece. I think Tradition has had a similar increase, but I haven't bought any since the summer, so I can't give a more precise number; maybe one of the other painters in the forum will see this and can provide that.

In the end, you can't get something for nothing, and there is always an opportunity cost to any decision we make.

Prost!
Brad
 
I am relatively new to this forum but I note some posters here are all too ready to jump on someone who dares to question or challenge anything from KC.

Why when someone questions price increases am I suddenly accussed of being emotional. A little patronising dont you think?

It was a simple, logical question, without any emotion and that it why if you look at my posts there is NO K&C bashing or cheap shots. I have criticised posters who high jacked the post into anti KC, anti Andy and even (god knows how) anti Scottish thread.

I have thanked the Neville's for their response previously and again they are prompt and forth right on their response. Just as they are when I buy from them.

What I posted was why did Andy take all the easy posts; look at the one on Napoleonics and Red Lancer (c.7000 views combined, so maybe a wee bit of interest!!!); would you not think it warrants a comment? Andy has not responded; so the discussion was a bit one sided.

Once again, merry Xmas

Cheers


Gazza

I think you have the right to question matters of concern to you - but, the question has been answered - hasn't it ?

You seem to want a private audience with Andy over your concern. Have you taken the time to send him a PM on your question - or do you want this to be a public thing? I have found Andy answers all PM's (at least the ones I have sent) and is very open about his thoughts.

I still dont understand how anything more can be added to this particular question other than what has been said. If you are looking for Andy to answer will he lower his profit margin - well .... hahahahaha - I think you know that answer too ! :D

Ron
 
I am relatively new to this forum but I note some posters here are all too ready to jump on someone who dares to question or challenge anything from KC.

Why when someone questions price increases am I suddenly accussed of being emotional. A little patronising dont you think?

It was a simple, logical question, without any emotion and that it why if you look at my posts there is NO K&C bashing or cheap shots. I have criticised posters who high jacked the post into anti KC, anti Andy and even (god knows how) anti Scottish thread.

I have thanked the Neville's for their response previously and again they are prompt and forth right on their response. Just as they are when I buy from them.

What I posted was why did Andy take all the easy posts; look at the one on Napoleonics and Red Lancer (c.7000 views combined, so maybe a wee bit of interest!!!); would you not think it warrants a comment? Andy has not responded; so the discussion was a bit one sided.

Once again, merry Xmas

Cheers
Well laddy, I am not sure why you chose my post for your quote since I fail to see how a simple observation that the question about price had been addressed can reasonably be considered jumping on you or anyone else. As to Brad's reference to emotion, I humbly suggest that you are overreacting at wee bit. He did not say you were emotional, rather that none of us should mix our understandable emotional desire for cheaper product with an appreciation of the economic challenges of running this kind of business. I frankly don't see how you could find that patronizing or even directed exclusively at you. I am hardly a K&C apologist; I like their products but I also like those of other companies as well or better for certain periods; I just call them as I see them and I think the question of K&C price increase has been discussed beyond all reasonable expectation. Hopefully you will not find my opinion offensive, it is not intended to be anything but a statement of my view on the matter. Merry Xmas to you as well.
 
"Laddy" -I think that proves my point about being patronised !!!

Well laddy, I am not sure why you chose my post for your quote since I fail to see how a simple observation that the question about price had been addressed can reasonably be considered jumping on you or anyone else. As to Brad's reference to emotion, I humbly suggest that you are overreacting at wee bit. He did not say you were emotional, rather that none of us should mix our understandable emotional desire for cheaper product with an appreciation of the economic challenges of running this kind of business. I frankly don't see how you could find that patronizing or even directed exclusively at you. I am hardly a K&C apologist; I like their products but I also like those of other companies as well or better for certain periods; I just call them as I see them and I think the question of K&C price increase has been discussed beyond all reasonable expectation. Hopefully you will not find my opinion offensive, it is not intended to be anything but a statement of my view on the matter. Merry Xmas to you as well.
 

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