Borders Going Out of Business Sale (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

I went over to Borders yesterday since they said they were marking items down up to 40% since I was hoping to get some bargains on some Civil War items that I had been looking at such as David Work's Lincoln's Political Generals (that I had been eyeing for a while but had never pulled the plug) and Amanda Foreman's World on Fire (which I happened to see at BJ's the day before for about $22).

What a joke. History books were being marked down only 20% I even saw some non-History books marked down at 10%.

If you're going to have a real sale, then have a real one but don't insult our intelligence. They must think consumers dumb because you can always get a minimum of 20 to 30 percent at Amazon.

That is probably why they're in this pickle to begin with.

 

[lancer]

I went over to Borders yesterday since they said they were marking items down up to 40% since I was hoping to get some bargains on some Civil War items that I had been looking at such as David Work's Lincoln's Political Generals (that I had been eyeing for a while but had never pulled the plug) and Amanda Foreman's World on Fire (which I happened to see at BJ's the day before for about $22).

What a joke. History books were being marked down only 20% I even saw some non-History books marked down at 10%.

If you're going to have a real sale, then have a real one but don't insult our intelligence. They must think consumers dumb because you can always get a minimum of 20 to 30 percent at Amazon.

That is probably why they're in this pickle to begin with.

Thanks for the "heads up", Brad. I was about to go investigate the 40% off claim. 20% isn't worth the gas to get there. Saved me aggravation, sir. :wink2: -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

It's not worth the bother Al. I was going to go there Monday and got on the highway and since it was raining it was like being on the 405 ^&grin so I got off as soon as I could. Yesterday, a smoother ride but just annoyance. BTW, I thought it was 40 percent too but then you read the fine print of it's up to 40 percent.

Now, on a funny note, before I left I was going to use the Men's room but they said the bathrooms are closed "out of order." Held it! {eek3}

 

[gk5717]

As with a lot of going out of business stores, don,t they sell their inventory to a liquidator. ,Then the liquidator just puts any "origional" price tag on an item then marks that down. I have never found any deals in these types os sales.
Gary

 

[jazzeum]

I don't know if that step has taken place yet. However, since they're in Chapter 7 now (rather than Chapter 11), I'm guessing that the Trustee or the Creditors Committee may have set the prices.

Also, it may make good business sense to keep the discounts as low as possible and slowly ramp them up as the scheduled date for closure starts drawing closer.

At any rate, it's a shame they're going out of business. I much prefer them to B & N and they always had more of everything than B & N did.

 

[The Ruskie]

Borders recently folded in Australia. There's lots of talk about online shopping being blamed for their demise but I think it was bad management practices myself. They sold books at RRP when KMart next door had the same titles for $10 cheaper!

Guess where I went to buy books? Certainly wasn't at Borders.

Mick

 

[lancer]

Borders recently folded in Australia. There's lots of talk about online shopping being blamed for their demise but I think it was bad management practices myself. They sold books at RRP when KMart next door had the same titles for $10 cheaper!

Guess where I went to buy books? Certainly wasn't at Borders.

Mick

I'm guessing KMart has a lot more selection in product of all different sorts to absorb the extra discount on the books. If book publishers would deny the dealers the right to discount ala King and Country, that is, set the retail price and require that it be sold at that price, then the book sellers wouldn't have to contend with stores like KMart selling books at a bare minimum profit or loss. Not a level playing field and thus the demise of brick and mortar bookstores. -- Al

 

[Ruggles]

I was a store manager for Waldenbook for about 5 years, they were owned by Borders. Sad to see this occur. From e-books to online shopping I think a lot of issues are to blame for their demise. Average margin on full MSRP was around 30%-35% on books when I worked for them,more on the "bargain" books. It was a good job back when I had it but the low pay scale made me look elsewhere for a job, this was 11 years ago or so.

Too bad, bookstores are very beneficial to society IMO {sm2}

 

[Combat]

Most of the Border's stores I visit are jammed. I think the going out of business is intentional - just a way to close stores, fire employees, reduce overhead, and move to a strictly online or ebook situation. Otherwise it's hard to understand why these stores sell most books online at prices of 20-50% less than they charge in the store.

 

[jazzeum]

You're mistaken about the closure being intentional. The only party that offered to purchase Borders offered a plan to the creditors that offered few reassurances they would be repaid. Since they wouldn't, the plan was rejected and Borders' only option was to close its doors. See this article, http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/07...to-liquidate/?scp=1&sq=borders closing&st=cse

 

[Rutledge]

I went over to Borders yesterday since they said they were marking items down up to 40% since I was hoping to get some bargains on some Civil War items that I had been looking at such as David Work's Lincoln's Political Generals (that I had been eyeing for a while but had never pulled the plug) and Amanda Foreman's World on Fire (which I happened to see at BJ's the day before for about $22).

What a joke. History books were being marked down only 20% I even saw some non-History books marked down at 10%.

If you're going to have a real sale, then have a real one but don't insult our intelligence. They must think consumers dumb because you can always get a minimum of 20 to 30 percent at Amazon.

That is probably why they're in this pickle to begin with.

I recently read something about this. At this stage, Borders is being run by a liquidation firm. Their typical strategy is to start off with prices somewhat high, as people may assume they are getting a deal because of all the media coverage. Later, as time goes by, the prices will be lowered and then there might be some deals. Of course, by then the inventory may be rather whittled down.

 

[The Military Workshop]

Rutledge is right. Same happened at Borders here.

The nearer it got to the closing date the cheaper the prices got. Of course you take your chances that the book you want is sold before it reaches your price point.

 

[lancer]

I recently read something about this. At this stage, Borders is being run by a liquidation firm. Their typical strategy is to start off with prices somewhat high, as people may assume they are getting a deal because of all the media coverage. Later, as time goes by, the prices will be lowered and then there might be some deals. Of course, by then the inventory may be rather whittled down.

This is typical strategy for going OOB. Rutledge is right. The discounts will increase but the stock will thin out quite a bit. By the time one gets to the 40% off level for the history books, there won't be much left. Also, by that time, a lot of what is left is less than mint condition, having been handled or just plain abused from months on the shelves. It is a balancing act for the serious collector/buyer. -- Al

 

[Combat]

You're mistaken about the closure being intentional. The only party that offered to purchase Borders offered a plan to the creditors that offered few reassurances they would be repaid. Since they wouldn't, the plan was rejected and Borders' only option was to close its doors. See this article, http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/07...to-liquidate/?scp=1&sq=borders closing&st=cse

If Borders can't make a go of it, then bookstores are in trouble. It reminds me a bit of the airlines though where they ALWAYS claim they are losing money but every plane is full. A lot of bookkeeping nonsense. A few executives steal the company blind for years, cut corners and benefits, and jump ship when it comes crashing down. It's been a standard practice in most US industries in the past decade. There is a ton of money being made but the plan is to take it and run.

 

[jazzeum]

I don't think that the book industry and airlines are comparable nor do I believe that most companies operate the way you've articulated it. The ones I've been involved with certainly don't.

Regarding the book industry, B & N is for sale and these mega bookstores have hurt the smaller bookstores, who are not unhappy to see Borders go. The bookstore retailers have to cope with the Amazons of the world, not to mention ereaders. In addition, on popular books there is competition from Walmart, Costco and the BJs of the world, who discount books to the same level that Amazon does. For example, I just purchased Amanda Foreman's book on the Civil War from BJs at $21, cheaper than a Borders, B & N or a local bookstore can offer but comparable to Amazon.

 

[lancer]

If Borders can't make a go of it, then bookstores are in trouble. It reminds me a bit of the airlines though where they ALWAYS claim they are losing money but every plane is full. A lot of bookkeeping nonsense. A few executives steal the company blind for years, cut corners and benefits, and jump ship when it comes crashing down. It's been a standard practice in most US industries in the past decade. There is a ton of money being made but the plan is to take it and run.

Quite right that the bookstores are in trouble. I used to be in the what is called the used book business (small, independent stores). The internet is killing the small brick and mortar stores that used to be so common. In my area alone, along with the loss of the bigger stores, something like 2 dozen of the smaller stores have folded with most of the few left hanging on by the skin of their teeth. A couple of dealers threw in the towel on walk-in trade and have gone to internet only, which is the overall trend. Soon there will be no where to go look at books besides a library and this will be a huge loss to the reader/collector. Sure, one can save a few dollars via the internet, but the cost in terms of the human factor is too high. It would be just like all the TS dealers folding up and the collector having to buy sight unseen from one or two large distributors or makers. The human factor is what makes hobbies fun, both TS collecting or book collecting. JMHO. -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

In the town next to mine a bookstore opened up a few years ago and from time to time I try to give them business (even it costs me a few dollars) as I think it's important that bookstores like these don't go out of business.

 

[Rutledge]

If Borders can't make a go of it, then bookstores are in trouble. It reminds me a bit of the airlines though where they ALWAYS claim they are losing money but every plane is full. A lot of bookkeeping nonsense. A few executives steal the company blind for years, cut corners and benefits, and jump ship when it comes crashing down. It's been a standard practice in most US industries in the past decade. There is a ton of money being made but the plan is to take it and run.

The transportation business has always been terrible for return of capital. Going back to stagecoaches. The financing makes it very easy for new competitors to enter the market. It works like this: New entrants buy a bunch of planes, using those planes as collateral for the loans. In the beginning, a new airlines labor and other costs are low as they do not have years of employee privliges, pensions, etc built in. Furthermore, early on some employees may accept stock in lieu of pay. But, as time goes by, these advantages are eroded - and new entrants come in, taking over where they started. The "old one" either mergers/is acquired or goes out of business, and a new one takes it place. Classic capitalism, creative destruction.

Of course, assuming that a business is making money just because its planes are full is an overly simple and naieve way to look at it. If a business sells at less than/near cost, they can have millions of customers, but wont be successful.

As someone once said, the airlines exist for one reason: To get capital/money from the flying public into the coffers of Boeing (or other airplane manufactrers)

Companies that make stealing money from customers and share holders "standard practice" are ones that should be avoided, ie Enron, Madoff, HealthSouth, WorldCom, etc. Its called fraud, and its illegal. There are surely companies engaging in fraud right now. Thats why one should never put all ones eggs in a single basket.

Bookstores such as Borders had an unsustainable business model. Just because you rent a big space and fill it up with merchandise doesnt mean you have a viable business. Bookstores are, in fact, in deep trouble. As are many that find their business models threatened by new technologies or trends. Or perhaps it was this same pervasive executive crookedness that drove all the buggy whip manufacturers out of business, and not the automobile? ^&grin

 

[Combat]

Or perhaps it was this same pervasive executive crookedness that drove all the buggy whip manufacturers out of business, and not the automobile? ^&grin

What concerns me is the slash and burn mentality. A short term approach with a focus solely on maximizing short-term profits by cutting costs to unsustainable levels. Rather than innovation or customer service. Squeezing the company dry by reducing employee benefits (ideally none), overhead, customer service (no food on planes). The airlines are the best example, but many others have followed this path. The purpose is not to make the company more efficient or competitive as you might expect in a capitalist system. But rather the opposite. To generate quick profits from the cost savings which go directly to the CEOs and a few others who make millions. The business eventually goes bust absent government intervention. A handful walk away rich, but everyone else is out of luck. This is deemed success in some circles because it generates quick returns for those few in a position to benefit. In fact going bust is the ultimate objective since it demonstrates every possible dime has been sucked from the company. This is not capitalism simply because it results in a few getting rich. But more akin to a pyramid scheme.

 

[Warrior]

Quite right that the bookstores are in trouble. I used to be in the what is called the used book business (small, independent stores). The internet is killing the small brick and mortar stores that used to be so common. In my area alone, along with the loss of the bigger stores, something like 2 dozen of the smaller stores have folded with most of the few left hanging on by the skin of their teeth. A couple of dealers threw in the towel on walk-in trade and have gone to internet only, which is the overall trend. Soon there will be no where to go look at books besides a library and this will be a huge loss to the reader/collector. Sure, one can save a few dollars via the internet, but the cost in terms of the human factor is too high. It would be just like all the TS dealers folding up and the collector having to buy sight unseen from one or two large distributors or makers. The human factor is what makes hobbies fun, both TS collecting or book collecting. JMHO. -- Al

Al is 100% dead on with this. I buy a lot of books, mostly military artwork books and also wargaming rules sets, I do not for the most part buy any books blind, there are a few I've bought sight unseen, but most require a quick look through.

At the recent wargaming show I attended, I had 5 books on my shopping list and once I had a chance to look through them, I pulled the trigger on just one of them, the other 4 did nothing for me.

Without a guy like Dennis from OMM, this would not be possible; if he weren't around, not sure what I'd do as far as book buying. His prices are not bend over bargain basement prices like Amazon, but he provides great customer service and to me, that far outweights saving a few dollars on a book.

Sometimes price is not and should not be a hot button; once all the mom and pop book dealers are gone, guys like me are going to be sorry..................