BotB Panther Type G (1 Viewer)

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Peiper007

Staff Sergeant
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
Messages
847
Recently bought and was delivered yesterday the new Panther Type G. Couple of questions,

Why is the rear wheel of the 'steel' wheeled version?

why is there a number of lifting hooks on the turret? in pictures of this tank at the BotB there are not any extra lifting hooks?

I collect BotB as it is a period of WW2 I have studied and have been there on about 6 occasions, this tank is not one that I have ever seen in this configuration! I have the vast majority of this series, only not collecting the Elefant, as it was nowhere near the battle [if you get to see the one at Aberdeen in the states then go and see it, incredible vehicle] and also the BBG Command Car for the same reason!

Not which Panther is it! Is it from Battlegroup Peiper? If yes then it should not have been whitewashed?
 
Peiper007 said:
Recently bought and was delivered yesterday the new Panther Type G. Couple of questions,

Why is the rear wheel of the 'steel' wheeled version?

why is there a number of lifting hooks on the turret? in pictures of this tank at the BotB there are not any extra lifting hooks?

I collect BotB as it is a period of WW2 I have studied and have been there on about 6 occasions, this tank is not one that I have ever seen in this configuration! I have the vast majority of this series, only not collecting the Elefant, as it was nowhere near the battle [if you get to see the one at Aberdeen in the states then go and see it, incredible vehicle] and also the BBG Command Car for the same reason!

Not which Panther is it! Is it from Battlegroup Peiper? If yes then it should not have been whitewashed?
Click to expand...

First of all, Peipers tanks were not whitewashed. Most were German yellow with brown and green camo pattern
The extra hooks were probably added by the crew in the field to add some extra protection as shown in the pictures. I also add a picture of the 302 knocked out in the Ardennes
hope this helps
guy:)
Panther_ausf_G_France_1944_8.jpg Panther ausf G

Panther_befehlswagen.jpg Panther befehls Panzer

Panther_in_Belgium_1_Panzer_SS_Division.jpg Panther in Belgium ( 1st SS)

Panther_number_302.jpg picture of the 302 knocked out somewhere in the Ardennes , as you can see, NO WHITEWASH
 
Incidentally.
The Elfant did appear in the Battle of the Bulge
Please reference the excellent new book by Peter Schrijvers
THOSE WHO HOLD BASTOGNE
Harvey
 
h.hammer said:
Incidentally.
The Elfant did appear in the Battle of the Bulge
Please reference the excellent new book by Peter Schrijvers
THOSE WHO HOLD BASTOGNE
Harvey
Click to expand...

Does the book mention which unit operated the Elephant? I don't want to question the author's research (as I have n't read his book) but in all the numerous photographic histories of the Bulge which have been produced over the years not a single photo has shown a Elephant either in service or knocked out.

The only recorded encounter with Elephants in NW Europe I have heard of before was on 11 April 1945 when the Fallingbostel based Pz.Jag.Abt 71 with two Elephants attacked 45 Royal Marine Commando at Essel in North Germany.
 
It's a myth that there were Elephants taking part in the BoB . In the autumn of 1944 all surviving Elephants ( from the Battle of Kursk) were assigned to Panzerjäger Kompanie 614( = 653th Pz Jg Abt renamed in December 1944) When you read the combat history of the 653th they didn't do anything in the month of Dec 1944 other than load and unload on railcars and sit on railroad sidings.The 1st company departed from Dollersheim training area on Dec 7th, with 7 guns to take part in the upcoming Ardennes offensive. All of the 653th trains were blocked by the completely bombed out rail lines. This situation lasted from the 12th Dec until the 31st.So the 653th ( 614th)never reached the Ardennes .
The 654th Pz Jg Abt never fought in the Ardennes but it took part in Operation "Northwind" in January 1945 around the city of Strassbourg ( 100km to the south of the Ardennes region) The 654th had "Nashhorns" often mistaken for Ferdinands or Elephants.
Early 1945 all remaining Elephants (4) saw final service with Kampfgruppe "Ritter" at Zossen ( defence of Berlin)
guy:)
 
The rings on the turret are not lifting hooks.

They are a factory modification that came late in the Ausf G production run to aid in holding/applying camouflage, such as foliage or branches, based on battlefield lessons in dealing with Allied air superiority.
 
Can you post some pictures of your winter Panther G?

I'd love to see some real-life pictures of this model to see what it looks like in real life.
 
Thanks but to be blunt you are WRONG and the information is incorrect, it is felt he confused the vehicles with his research and it was another TD, possibly a Jadgpanther or even a Jadgtiger, but this was probably soldiers on the ground as many would not have seen a Jadgpanther or a Jadgtiger when they first appeared in the battle. It has also been documented by non-BotB experts as there has been considerable research into the Elefant TD and they have clearly outlined where each of the production run was either abandoned or destroyed. Therefore they know what happened to every single Elefant and none were destroyed during the BotB.

I have read Schrijvers book and did see that and it made me smile, if you want to read on the battle of the Ardennes then I suggest you look through the list below,
Author Title
Addor. D Noville Outpost to Bastogne
Allen. R High White Forest
Anderson. C THE FALL OF FORTRESS EUROPE
Arend F PATTON and the 3rd Army in the Bulge.
Arnold J Ardennes 1944.
Astor. G A Blood Dimmed Tide
Babcock Taught To Kill
Bauserman. J The Malmedy Massacre
Billings. R Task Force Lone Bandit
Binsfield. G The Battle of the Bulge
Blunt R Inside The Battle of the Bulge
Blunt R Foot Soldier
Bonham. F The Ghost Front
Bruning. J The Battle of the Bulge
Burgett. D Seven Roads To Hell
Cavanagh. W Battle East of Elsenborn
Cavanagh. W A Tour of the Bulge Battlefield.
Cockle. T PANZERS of the Ardennes Off 44 -45
Cole. H The Ardennes: The Battle of the Bulge
Collins. M The Tigers of Bastogne
Connell. M The Ardennes-BotB (Battles in Focus)
Connelly. M The Mortarman
Cooke. D Kamp Peiper: Race for the Meuse
Cortesi L Valour in the Bulge
Critchell L Four Stars of Hell
Crookenden N Battle of the Bulge
Cross. R The BotB.44. Hitler's Last Hope
Davis. G Bloody Bastogne
Davis. F M Break Through
Delaforce. P Battle of the Bulge: Hitler's Final Gamble
DeMeyer. S Duel in the Mist - One
DeMeyer. S Duel in the Mist - Two
DeMeyer. S Duel in the Mist - Three
Draper. T 84th Inf Div in the Battle of the Bulge
Dupuy T Hitler’s Last Gamble
Eastlake W Castle Keep
Eisenhower J The Bitter Woods
Elstob. P Bastogne. Road Block (Purnell’s).
Elstob. P Hitler’s Last Offensive
Forty. G. The Reich's Last Gamble
Gallagher R Malmedy Massacre
Gaul. R The BotB in Lux. Vol 1: The Germans
Gaul. R The BotB in Lux. Vol 2: The Americans
Goethals T Panzer Ghost Division
Goldstein D Nuts! The Battle of the Bulge
Goolrick W The Battle of the Bulge
Green. G Patton and the Battle of the Bulge
Green. M Stories of the Battle of the Bulge
Gregoire G Fire. Les Panzer De Peiper
GreGoire. G Le Tiger 213 La Gleize
Hartman. J Tank Driver
Hechler K Holding the Line
Heyman. M Christmas in Bastogne
Hingston. P The Outsider
Hughes. D Soldier Boys
Jackson. R TEMPEST Squadron
Jordan. D The BotBFirst 24 hours
Kane S 1 SS Panzer Div in the Battle of the Bulge
Kelly. C Red Legs of the Bulge
Kershaw. A The Longest Winter
Kessler L SS Peiper
Kindle. T The Boys from New Jersey
Koskimaki. G Battered Bastards of BASTOGNE
Kotlowitz. R Before Their Time
Lee. N de Voices of the Battle of the Bulge
Lucas. J SS Kampfgruppe Peiper
Lynch. D Into the Dragon's Teeth: Warrior's Tales
Macdonald C A Time for Trumpets
Macdonald C The BotB
Macdonald C Company Commander
MacKenzie F The Men of Bastogne
Marshall.S Bastogne.
McGivern. W Soldiers of 44
McManus. J Alamo in the Ardennes
Merriam R The BotB
Archer. L BotB - Panzerwrecks 16
Mitcham. S Panzers in Winter
Mulvihill. W Fire Mission
Neill. G W Infantry Soldier
Nobecourt J Hitler's Last Gamble
Oren. M Reunion
Orfalea G Messengers of the Lost Battalion:
Pallaud J. D. Ardennes 1944 - Peiper & Skorzeny
Pallaud J. D. BotB.Then and Now
Parker D.S. Hitler’s Ardennes Offensive
Parker D.S. The BotB
Parker D.S. To Win the Winter Sky
Parker D.S. BotB View of the German High Command.
Parker D.S. FATAL Crossroads
Patterson. E Patton's Unsung Armour of the Ardennes
Patton O Silent Snow
Patton. O The Silent Snow
Pearce. D Nobody Comes Back: A Novel of the BotB
Pergrin. D Engineering the Victory
Phillips. R To Save Bastogne - BotB before the BotB.
Pimlott J Battle of the Bulge
Quarrie B Ardennes Off. Panzer Armee. Northern Sector.
Quarrie B The Ardennes Off. Allied. Northern Sector.
Quarrie B Ardennes Off. Panzer Armee. Central Sector.
Quarrie B The Ardennes Off. Allied. Central Sector.
Quarrie B The Ardennes Off. German. Southern Sector.
Quarrie B The Ardennes Off. Allied.Southern Sector.
Quigley. M Hell Frozen Over
Rawson. A The Battle of the Bulge
Reynolds. M The Devils Adjutant
Reynolds. M Men of Steel
Richardson E Blood and Candles
Rusiecki. S The Key to the Bulge
Schacllewitz The Meuse First and then Antwerp
Schrijvers. P The Unknown Dead - Civilians in the BotB
Schrijvers. P Those Who Hold Bastogne
Sears, S.W. The BotB
Semmler. H SS-Flak
Shaara. J No Less Than Victory
Shepherd. We Were There at the Battle of the Bulge
Stein C The Story of the Battle of the Bulge
Strawson J The Battle for the Ardennes
Tabor M Battle of the Bulge
Three Battle of the Bulge
Toland J Battle
Tolhurst M Bastogne.
Tolhurst M St Vith. US 106th Infantry Division
Tsouras. P Battle of the Bulge-Hitler's Alternate Scenarios
Vassaux. W NUTS ! Bastogne BotB(Cartoon)
Vorwald. P BotB. Through The Lens.
Warnock The Dead of Winter
Watkins.P Night Over Day Over Night
Weingartner. Crossroads of Death
Weintraub. 11 Days in December
Welsh, R. B Two Foes To Fight In BotB
Whiting.C Orders to Kill
Whiting.C BotB. Britain’s Untold Story.
Whiting.C Massacre at Malmedy
Whiting.C The March on London
Whiting.C Pattons Last Battle
Whiting.C Ardennes. The Secret War
Whiting.C Ghost Front
Whiting.C Decision at St Vith
Whiting.C The BATTLE for the GERMAN FRONTIER
Whiting.C Last Assault
Wijers. H BotB Losheim Gap/Holding the Line. Vol 1
Wijers. H BotB Hell at Butgenbach/Seize of the Bridges
Wilson. G If You Survive: From Normandy to the BotB.
Winters. G FREINEUX and LAMORMENIL - The Ardennes
Winton. H Corps Commanders of the Bulge
Young, D The Lion's Share : A Story of the BotB
Zaloga. S The BotB
Zaloga. S Battle of The Ardennes 1944 [1]
Zaloga. S BotB1944 (2)
Zaloga. S Panther V Sherman - Battle of the Bulge
La Gleize Museum
Monmorry Routes Battle of the Bulge
Bastogne Museum
 
h.hammer said:
Incidentally.
The Elfant did appear in the Battle of the Bulge
Please reference the excellent new book by Peter Schrijvers
THOSE WHO HOLD BASTOGNE
Harvey
Click to expand...

Thanks but to be blunt you are WRONG and the information is incorrect, it is felt he confused the vehicles with his research and it was another TD, possibly a Jadgpanther or even a Jadgtiger, but this was probably soldiers on the ground as many would not have seen a Jadgpanther or a Jadgtiger when they first appeared in the battle. It has also been documented by non-BotB experts as there has been considerable research into the Elefant TD and they have clearly outlined where each of the production run was either abandoned or destroyed. Therefore they know what happened to every single Elefant and none were destroyed during the BotB.

I have read Schrijvers book and did see that and it made me smile, if you want to read on the battle of the Ardennes then I suggest you look through the list below,
Author Title
Addor. D Noville Outpost to Bastogne
Allen. R High White Forest
Anderson. C THE FALL OF FORTRESS EUROPE
Arend F PATTON and the 3rd Army in the Bulge.
Arnold J Ardennes 1944.
Astor. G A Blood Dimmed Tide
Babcock Taught To Kill
Bauserman. J The Malmedy Massacre
Billings. R Task Force Lone Bandit
Binsfield. G The Battle of the Bulge
Blunt R Inside The Battle of the Bulge
Blunt R Foot Soldier
Bonham. F The Ghost Front
Bruning. J The Battle of the Bulge
Burgett. D Seven Roads To Hell
Cavanagh. W Battle East of Elsenborn
Cavanagh. W A Tour of the Bulge Battlefield.
Cockle. T PANZERS of the Ardennes Off 44 -45
Cole. H The Ardennes: The Battle of the Bulge
Collins. M The Tigers of Bastogne
Connell. M The Ardennes-BotB (Battles in Focus)
Connelly. M The Mortarman
Cooke. D Kamp Peiper: Race for the Meuse
Cortesi L Valour in the Bulge
Critchell L Four Stars of Hell
Crookenden N Battle of the Bulge
Cross. R The BotB.44. Hitler's Last Hope
Davis. G Bloody Bastogne
Davis. F M Break Through
Delaforce. P Battle of the Bulge: Hitler's Final Gamble
DeMeyer. S Duel in the Mist - One
DeMeyer. S Duel in the Mist - Two
DeMeyer. S Duel in the Mist - Three
Draper. T 84th Inf Div in the Battle of the Bulge
Dupuy T Hitler’s Last Gamble
Eastlake W Castle Keep
Eisenhower J The Bitter Woods
Elstob. P Bastogne. Road Block (Purnell’s).
Elstob. P Hitler’s Last Offensive
Forty. G. The Reich's Last Gamble
Gallagher R Malmedy Massacre
Gaul. R The BotB in Lux. Vol 1: The Germans
Gaul. R The BotB in Lux. Vol 2: The Americans
Goethals T Panzer Ghost Division
Goldstein D Nuts! The Battle of the Bulge
Goolrick W The Battle of the Bulge
Green. G Patton and the Battle of the Bulge
Green. M Stories of the Battle of the Bulge
Gregoire G Fire. Les Panzer De Peiper
GreGoire. G Le Tiger 213 La Gleize
Hartman. J Tank Driver
Hechler K Holding the Line
Heyman. M Christmas in Bastogne
Hingston. P The Outsider
Hughes. D Soldier Boys
Jackson. R TEMPEST Squadron
Jordan. D The BotBFirst 24 hours
Kane S 1 SS Panzer Div in the Battle of the Bulge
Kelly. C Red Legs of the Bulge
Kershaw. A The Longest Winter
Kessler L SS Peiper
Kindle. T The Boys from New Jersey
Koskimaki. G Battered Bastards of BASTOGNE
Kotlowitz. R Before Their Time
Lee. N de Voices of the Battle of the Bulge
Lucas. J SS Kampfgruppe Peiper
Lynch. D Into the Dragon's Teeth: Warrior's Tales
Macdonald C A Time for Trumpets
Macdonald C The BotB
Macdonald C Company Commander
MacKenzie F The Men of Bastogne
Marshall.S Bastogne.
McGivern. W Soldiers of 44
McManus. J Alamo in the Ardennes
Merriam R The BotB
Archer. L BotB - Panzerwrecks 16
Mitcham. S Panzers in Winter
Mulvihill. W Fire Mission
Neill. G W Infantry Soldier
Nobecourt J Hitler's Last Gamble
Oren. M Reunion
Orfalea G Messengers of the Lost Battalion:
Pallaud J. D. Ardennes 1944 - Peiper & Skorzeny
Pallaud J. D. BotB.Then and Now
Parker D.S. Hitler’s Ardennes Offensive
Parker D.S. The BotB
Parker D.S. To Win the Winter Sky
Parker D.S. BotB View of the German High Command.
Parker D.S. FATAL Crossroads
Patterson. E Patton's Unsung Armour of the Ardennes
Patton O Silent Snow
Patton. O The Silent Snow
Pearce. D Nobody Comes Back: A Novel of the BotB
Pergrin. D Engineering the Victory
Phillips. R To Save Bastogne - BotB before the BotB.
Pimlott J Battle of the Bulge
Quarrie B Ardennes Off. Panzer Armee. Northern Sector.
Quarrie B The Ardennes Off. Allied. Northern Sector.
Quarrie B Ardennes Off. Panzer Armee. Central Sector.
Quarrie B The Ardennes Off. Allied. Central Sector.
Quarrie B The Ardennes Off. German. Southern Sector.
Quarrie B The Ardennes Off. Allied.Southern Sector.
Quigley. M Hell Frozen Over
Rawson. A The Battle of the Bulge
Reynolds. M The Devils Adjutant
Reynolds. M Men of Steel
Richardson E Blood and Candles
Rusiecki. S The Key to the Bulge
Schacllewitz The Meuse First and then Antwerp
Schrijvers. P The Unknown Dead - Civilians in the BotB
Schrijvers. P Those Who Hold Bastogne
Sears, S.W. The BotB
Semmler. H SS-Flak
Shaara. J No Less Than Victory
Shepherd. We Were There at the Battle of the Bulge
Stein C The Story of the Battle of the Bulge
Strawson J The Battle for the Ardennes
Tabor M Battle of the Bulge
Three Battle of the Bulge
Toland J Battle
Tolhurst M Bastogne.
Tolhurst M St Vith. US 106th Infantry Division
Tsouras. P Battle of the Bulge-Hitler's Alternate Scenarios
Vassaux. W NUTS ! Bastogne BotB(Cartoon)
Vorwald. P BotB. Through The Lens.
Warnock The Dead of Winter
Watkins.P Night Over Day Over Night
Weingartner. Crossroads of Death
Weintraub. 11 Days in December
Welsh, R. B Two Foes To Fight In BotB
Whiting.C Orders to Kill
Whiting.C BotB. Britain’s Untold Story.
Whiting.C Massacre at Malmedy
Whiting.C The March on London
Whiting.C Pattons Last Battle
Whiting.C Ardennes. The Secret War
Whiting.C Ghost Front
Whiting.C Decision at St Vith
Whiting.C The BATTLE for the GERMAN FRONTIER
Whiting.C Last Assault
Wijers. H BotB Losheim Gap/Holding the Line. Vol 1
Wijers. H BotB Hell at Butgenbach/Seize of the Bridges
Wilson. G If You Survive: From Normandy to the BotB.
Winters. G FREINEUX and LAMORMENIL - The Ardennes
Winton. H Corps Commanders of the Bulge
Young, D The Lion's Share : A Story of the BotB
Zaloga. S The BotB
Zaloga. S Battle of The Ardennes 1944 [1]
Zaloga. S BotB1944 (2)
Zaloga. S Panther V Sherman - Battle of the Bulge
La Gleize Museum
Monmorry Routes Battle of the Bulge
Bastogne Museum
 
Guy said:
First of all, Peipers tanks were not whitewashed. Most were German yellow with brown and green camo pattern
The extra hooks were probably added by the crew in the field to add some extra protection as shown in the pictures. I also add a picture of the 302 knocked out in the Ardennes
hope this helps
guy:)
View attachment 165880 Panther ausf G

View attachment 165881 Panther befehls Panzer

View attachment 165883 Panther in Belgium ( 1st SS)

View attachment 165885 picture of the 302 knocked out somewhere in the Ardennes , as you can see, NO WHITEWASH
Click to expand...

Cheers I know these pictures very well and no whitewash, I think we agree on that, however on the extra hooks from your pictures it can be seen there were no extra lifting hooks! Plus they would not add extra grab handles there because firstly there were brackets there to hang spare tracks from and secondly why would they? As the way the tank was configured they could not climb on from the side and crewmen were advised to climb up from the front or back.............

want to stay on topic and why is it whitewashed and why are there rear steel wheels...............................
 
Peiper007 said:
Cheers I know these pictures very well and no whitewash, I think we agree on that, however on the extra hooks from your pictures it can be seen there were no extra lifting hooks! Plus they would not add extra grab handles there because firstly there were brackets there to hang spare tracks from and secondly why would they? As the way the tank was configured they could not climb on from the side and crewmen were advised to climb up from the front or back.............

want to stay on topic and why is it whitewashed and why are there rear steel wheels...............................
Click to expand...

I do not remember saying that the extra hooks were lifting hooks or extra grabb handles on the contrary I stated they were there to hang on extra spare tracks or wheels for extra protection.
guy:)
 
As we all should know, KC does not always stick to historical accuracy. Lately they've been designing one model with different paint schemes that will appeal to a large amount of collectors. BBG084 is simply a repainted WS272. This fills the void by having both a summer and winter version. If you want a specific unit or paint scheme, just repaint it or hire someone. There are plenty of talented people on this forum.
 
Guy said:
I do not remember saying that the extra hooks were lifting hooks or extra grabb handles on the contrary I stated they were there to hang on extra spare tracks or wheels for extra protection.
guy:)
Click to expand...

Gents,

Anyone want to wager a beer? You are both wrong and I provided the correct answer above. The rings on the side of the Panther G are a factory modification to aid in applying camouflage to the turret sides. It's spelled out in Jentz's excellent Panther.

The hooks for hanging track links off the sides of Panther turrets so popular with he 1. SS-LSSAH and 12. SS-HJ look like actual hooks and were fabricated in the field.
 
Hunter Rose said:
Gents,

Anyone want to wager a beer? You are both wrong and I provided the correct answer above. The rings on the side of the Panther G are a factory modification to aid in applying camouflage to the turret sides. It's spelled out in Jentz's excellent Panther.

The hooks for hanging track links off the sides of Panther turrets so popular with he 1. SS-LSSAH and 12. SS-HJ look like actual hooks and were fabricated in the field.
Click to expand...

Hunter Rose,
you're right if this tank was assembled in March/April 1945. Only these Panthers were equipped with camo loops
guy:)
 
K&C does not say the Panther was at the Bulge even though it is in the BoB range. It's just referred to as Belgian Winter. There was only one unit with whitewash at the Bulge (I forget which one) and this was discussed in a long ago thread on TF. AFVs got whitewash beginning in January or so 1945.

There were no Elefants in any unit at the Bulge. They were designed for the Russian steppes and saw limited service in Italy where they were too big for many roads, bridges and steep slopes. Some were at the defence of berlin having retreated from the east. This was also discussed in a long ago thread on TF.

The 5 camo loops on each turret side were to hold branches for camo, but anything could be tied to them. The 5 loops were factory installed beginning in January 1945. Note the K&C model has 5 loops per side.

Another modification was to replace the rubber rimmed dish wheel with a flat steel wheel at the last station on some Panthers in March/April 1945 at the M.A.N. plant. But in the field, if dish wheels were not available as replacements, long before this, Panthers would use steel Tiger/Tiger II wheels so the model could be prior to March/April 1945

Someone did some research on this one.

Terry
 
Phantom Warrior said:
K&C does not say the Panther was at the Bulge even though it is in the BoB range. It's just referred to as Belgian Winter. There was only one unit with whitewash at the Bulge (I forget which one) and this was discussed in a long ago thread on TF. AFVs got whitewash beginning in January or so 1945.

There were no Elefants in any unit at the Bulge. They were designed for the Russian steppes and saw limited service in Italy where they were too big for many roads, bridges and steep slopes. Some were at the defence of berlin having retreated from the east. This was also discussed in a long ago thread on TF.

The 5 camo loops on each turret side were to hold branches for camo, but anything could be tied to them. The 5 loops were factory installed beginning in January 1945. Note the K&C model has 5 loops per side.

Another modification was to replace the rubber rimmed dish wheel with a flat steel wheel at the last station on some Panthers in March/April 1945 at the M.A.N. plant. But in the field, if dish wheels were not available as replacements, long before this, Panthers would use steel Tiger/Tiger II wheels so the model could be prior to March/April 1945

Someone did some research on this one.

Terry
Click to expand...

I think Terry nailed it here. Questions answered !
 
Guy said:
Sorry,
I am pretty sure that camo loops were only fitted to the Panthers produced in March/April 1945 and not before .
guy:)
Click to expand...

Not even Jenz and Doyle nail the date down. In Panzer Tracts 5-3 in 2004 they specifically say January 1945. On page 100 of Germany's Panther Tank in 1997Doyle's line drawing of final production Panther Gs includes the camo loops is captioned with "all externally visible modifactions in effect when the last Panthers were produced by M.A.N. and Daimler-Benz in April 1945" Ive seen references they were introduced in March 1945. So who really knows for sure

Terry
 
Phantom Warrior said:
Not even Jenz and Doyle nail the date down. In Panzer Tracts 5-3 in 2004 they specifically say January 1945. On page 100 of Germany's Panther Tank in 1997Doyle's line drawing of final production Panther Gs includes the camo loops is captioned with "all externally visible modifactions in effect when the last Panthers were produced by M.A.N. and Daimler-Benz in April 1945" Ive seen references they were introduced in March 1945. So who really knows for sure

Terry
Click to expand...

Hi Terry
lets make a compromise and say it was Febuary {sm4}
But joke aside : A lot of the tanks and other AFVs produced in January arrived very late on the front lines due to the fact that the whole infrastructure, roads, railroads and canals were completely destroyed.( In some areas it took almost 50 days for the replacement AFVs to reach the troops)
guy:smile2:
 
Guy said:
Hi Terry
lets make a compromise and say it was Febuary {sm4}
But joke aside : A lot of the tanks and other AFVs produced in January arrived very late on the front lines due to the fact that the whole infrastructure, roads, railroads and canals were completely destroyed.( In some areas it took almost 50 days for the replacement AFVs to reach the troops)
guy:smile2:
Click to expand...

Lucky you chose February or the model couldn't have both whitewash and camo loops. :salute::{sm4}

Terry
 
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