British Sherman Certificates? (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

Over in the Ebay forum, the question has come up whether or not the Shermans sold stateside come numbered with certificates. When I first asked this question to Treefrog, they told me no, which surprised me. I mentioned it here and I got the cheeky suggestion that if I wanted a certificate then I should buy a British Sherman from King and Country UK. Tonight when I mentioned this to Chuck Harris, he was also surprised. I wonder if there are any collectors out there thinking that the Sherman they're getting come with certificates. I certainly thought so originally.

Now, the question is why. John (Njja) thought this was done specially for the show in December. If that's the case, why is King and Country UK selling them still with certificates. Frankly, This smacks of disparate treatment and I don't see why. Collectors here in the US are just as interested in these pieces as our British cousins. If this were not so, I don't they would have sold out already here in the United States. So now you'll have people with certificates and those without. Well, something for Louis to add to the book I suppose.

But now this raises another question: if Andy does a Strictly Limited United States vehicle in the future, perhaps to coincide with the Chicago Show, does that mean only people buying from American dealers should get certificates and those buying from King and Country UK or Fred Genard in France should get them without certificates? That would seem hardly fair but it would be tit for tat.

 

[maddadicus]

I did check my British Sherman for a certificate and there was none. Since I am new at this ,what does having a certificate mean as a practicable matter ? Thanks, Michael

 

[Njja]

I did check my British Sherman for a certificate and there was none. Since I am new at this ,what does having a certificate mean as a practicable matter ? Thanks, Michael

At this time Arnhem sets bring nearly the same price for certificate and non-

certificate sets, which probably has more to do with their popularity and

difficulty to obtain. The Vietnam sets seem to bring $100 to $150 more with

certificates. So its anybodys guess.

In the future I would imagine "original boxes" and certificates will probably

have an impact on items. Lionel Trains as an example, the original set box

doubles the value of a rare set.

Njja

 

[vandilay]

I,m a little confused now,if only the UK shermans have a cert,does this mean
their is 500 realised with certificates for the uk ,and another 500 or 700 relised to the rest of the K and C dealers without certificates.I would have bought this model anyway I was just wondering if anyone knows total production [with and without certs]
cheser

 

[jazzeum]

To the best of my knowledge, 700 were made, 500 with certificates for King and Country UK and 200 for the rest of the world, without certificates.

 

[vandilay]

To the best of my knowledge, 700 were made, 500 with certificates for King and Country UK and 200 for the rest of the world, without certificates.

Hi
cheers for the info.


regards Rob [maybe someone can convince k and c to do a ltd forum piece]

 

[Tony Neville]

Guys

To help clear a point here..........and Brad it was a cheeky joke when we discussed this before. We only have 500 certificates and 500 shermans (well less the hundreds that we have sold)

The British Sherman was Origionally going to be produced SPECIFICALLY for K&C UK. However as Andy did not want to upset other dealers world wide he then informed us that there will be 200 produced for them. Making total run 700. The certificates produced are by K&C UK signed by Mike Neville and not Andy so they are very K&C UK specific, approved by Andy. We had them produced for our 500 before we were informed the run would be 200 more to accomadate the rest of the world.

IF a sherman is bought from us then yes they come with a certificate. Every single one has been inspected by me and a certificate inserted. If an american dealer has bought from us (as a good number have) or single americans have then they will get a certificate in them. So if you have bought froma dealer who has bought from us you will have a certificate, if the dealer bought from KC HK then there will be no certificate.

AS i say the certificate was produced by US and not ANDY. If you look at all the threads in the past this has always been the case, we have always said that ours are coming numbered and with a certificate. I guess Mike spending as much as he did on this model entitles him to certificate the ones we had.

Hope this clears this one up???

Tony Neville
K&C UK

 

[jazzeum]

Tony,

Thanks for clearing that up although it doesn't make the answer to the issue any less satisfactory.

It would have been better for people deciding to buy the Sherman if it had been clear up front that the 200 didn't come with a certificate.

 

[Tony Neville]

Brad

Also though please understand that we only had a commitment to 500 of the shermans. The 200 ontop were decided by K&C HK. The project as i say was set out to be a K&C UK Special. adding 200 does not make it a K&C UK special.

Tony

 

[jazzeum]

Tony,

I understand that. I just wish it had been clearer that the 200 being sold outside the UK did not come with certificates. Had that been known at the time, I would have opted for the certificated one and I still may. How many do you have left and could your father bring one over for the Symposium if that's not too much trouble.

 

[jazzeum]

One more question. Are you planning anything else for the end of 2006. If you are, I won't make the same mistake twice

Why not get Andy to do a special Beford lorry for North Africa?

 

[Flammenpanzer]

Since the 200 are without certificates, are they more rare than 500 with? I still like my Sherman, but they really need to be clear on future releases.

 

[Tony Neville]

Would love to have a K&C UK special but not sure the K&C UK cash flow could take it!!

Tony Neville

 

[jazzeum]

I have to think that as far as resale goes the ones with the certificates will fetch a higher price even though there is more of them.

 

[Njja]

Since the 200 are without certificates, are they more rare than 500 with? I still like my Sherman, but they really need to be clear on future releases.

I am one of the first to complain about production-release-issues but I have to say King & Country is blameless in this one.

As I recall Tony announced a limited production British Sherman 500 pieces to be available at his show in the UK. He came on the forum and informed us and gave us the opportunity to order them. He even suggested they be shipped to Treefrog for distribution in the US. These were the original numbered pieces.

It was then decided that 200 additional pieces would be made available for the US marketplace. It was never stated to be a numbered release as the UK edition was. No one ever to my knowledge mentioned it, sooooo we have to
give Andy C. a break here, all he did was run off an additional 200 for us here in the States.

I happeded to get a UK version, but I can tell you, its one of my favorite pieces and you will not be dissapointed. So be sure to grab one while you can. And if you want the certificate Tony still had a few last time I was on his site.

Hey Andy C. Look! I'm not Complaining!

Your Friend!

Njja

 

[jazzeum]

If it looks like I'm complaining I'm not. I appreciate that this was made at all and that this has been made available to everybody, whether in the UK, America or the rest of the world

 

[Monty]

YEah

I have to agree i remember the Sherman thread when it first came out and it was clear that K&C UK were getting 500 and they were going to certificate theirs (with K&CUK) certificates. They even on the forum offered a preorder e-mail (i think from Bob Neville) those that wanted one. And if i remember rightly Tony and Mike Neville were at Chicago taking preorders and explaining the certificates there.

I have mine and the model is awesome and Bob and Mike made a great job with the certificate. Bob should post one so you can all see what they are like.

I to have seen the sherman on the K&C UK webiste and it is still available and with a certificate.

monty

 

[Combat]

This numbering business seems like a confusing mess to me. But I didn't order the Sherman, so if you guys are satisfied that is fine with me. I never really understood the notion of a "British" edition in the internet age that could be ordered from anywhere. One last pitch though for numbering the individual items!