Cavalry horse stability (1 Viewer)

[toymodelsoldiers]

Good morning.
Has anyone suffered the "loss" of one or more of their mounted Imperial soldiers due to horses that fall over too easily bending or breaking their legs? I've used clay and wax to help support them but when the weather gets warm, or there is any vibration, they tend to topple regardless. Any thoughts?
Dave.

 

[ucla1967]

I have a particular problem with the mounted officer in the Cameron Highlanders Hierloom set. He will, over time, go from a rearing horse to a kneeling horse because of the heat here in California. Also, whenever we have an earthquake, my Imperial figures are "mowed down" more so than any other manufacturers' figures. I also have a problem with certain Frontline Figures horse sculpts (e.g., Charge of the Light Brigade, Napoleonic) which will start leaning over in the heat and will dump the rider and fall into the other horses near them.

 

[johnnybach]

In my opinion - regardless of maker - all mounted figures are far better off on a good solid base. As I make up most of my figures, I ALWAYS pin and epoxy resin glue all mounted pieces. This helps keep them more stable and less likely to get damaged by falling over - or the dreaded dominoe effect, where one faller can topple the rest. We all accept that foot figures need a base - yet many don't like a base on a mounted figure?

Suitable bases can often be purchased from casting suppliers - or are sometimes an option from manufacturers. The separate bases may be fitted carefully by drilling and pinning - or fabricated from many substances. I have used metal offcuts - and even thin plywood. They all work, and have kept mine stable (sic), for the last 15 years.

The other problems mentioned of bending parts in heat, is really a design fault - not forseen by the manufacturer, and may be cured by supporting legs which are too weak to support the weight of the figure itself. This can either be solved internally (by drilling into legs and inserting stronger metal rods - or externally, by fabricating supports for the figure - often camoflagued as tree stumps or plants etcetera).

If you don't posses the skills to DIY - then there are folks "out there" who may be able to help. My advice would be to ask the manufacturer, in the first instance - who are often aware of the problems - and may help with repair and/or advice.

 

[Yosmanos]

I have found some success with supporting the mounted (Heirloom) horses with a small perspex rod, cut to length and with a small piece of felt at either end. This is then placed under the breastbone to the base. Its is invisible except on very close inspection. Only hassle was cutting the perspex rod to size which required a hobby vice and fine tooth sawblade. I have a lot of perspex left over - I'd be happy to fashion some for anyone interested. I dont have much spare time but .. happy to make the offer
Mark

 

[johnnybach]

Mark - that sounds a really good idea for (say) a rearing horse. Any chance of a pic to see what it would look like? Johnnybach

 

[ucla1967]

An unintended casualty of the 11th Hussars at the Charge of the Light Brigade.

 

[johnnybach]

I can tell you how to fix that, if you want to know Mike. jb

 

[ucla1967]

I can tell you how to fix that, if you want to know Mike. jb

Sure, I'm game. Thanks.

 

[johnnybach]

Firstly, you have to decide that you don't want the rider detachable from the horse any longer - though why you would want that, I don't really understand, as they won't stand up without a base and would be bandy as a standing figure.

Below, see a picture of three Hussar castings getting the "good news" by having a pin inserted in a portion of their anatomy where the sun don't shine! With a painted figure, you need to scrape away any paint at that point - and drill very carefully with a pin-vise to make a hole directly up into the body about 3-5mm in depth. I wear soft cotton gloves whilst doing this with painted figures. Insert the pin ( I use cut lengths of paper-clips) and fix in place using a high-speed epoxy resin glue. Once set, reposition the figure in the saddle - and the pin will mark the spot for the next hole to be drilled down into the back of the horse, through the saddle - to the same depth. Again, remove a small portion of paint directly under the rider - to get metal-to-metal contact. Then a carefully applied film of the same glue under the rider and top of saddle - and put the rider back on by inserting the pin into it's hole. You will need to cut the pin to the correct length before fitting, of course, by trial and error before applying the glue. Though it dries clear, clean of any excess before it sets - though with a bit of practice, you will soon get the hang of how much to use.

Once the rider in place, he will never come off again. This is a particularly useful modification for fitting a separate rider onto a rearing horse - as the 11th Hussar in my picture below

And when completed - they look like this - with a solid base (same technique to fit - but shorter pin up into each leg 2-3mm) - and attached with pin and glue to the horse - forever. johnnybach

 

[Al Fisher]

There's a generic product called museum wax used to keep things like pottery from falling off shelves during earthquakes, etc. I know my daughter has used it for a favorite vase and it has survived despite the presence of two young kids. When I get rid of our grandson's crib and can once again get to my toy soldier cabinet, I plan to use it to keep my cavalry from toppling whenever a large truck goes by. To take it one step further, it would probably serve to attach a rider to a horse w/o damaging either.
Just a thought . . .

Bosun Al

 

[johnnybach]

Your choice Bosun - though my solution is a permanent fix - and more of a modification to the original figure than damaging it - as you will never again see the joint - as it will never come off again. I suppose once changed into a "solid figure", rather than separates , the wax you describe, could go underneath the base to hold the whole thing in place.

It's up to the owner of the piece(s) I guess - my solution is the one that I personally prefer.

Good to have options though. Thanks for that tip - I'll try and find some. jb

 

[4th Hussar]

There's a generic product called museum wax used to keep things like pottery from falling off shelves during earthquakes, etc. I know my daughter has used it for a favorite vase and it has survived despite the presence of two young kids. When I get rid of our grandson's crib and can once again get to my toy soldier cabinet, I plan to use it to keep my cavalry from toppling whenever a large truck goes by. To take it one step further, it would probably serve to attach a rider to a horse w/o damaging either.
Just a thought . . .

Bosun Al

I have used it for years and it works well in keeping my troops upright

 

[ucla1967]

Thanks guys for your suggestions. However, the problem I have is that certain horses lean over due to a design flaw (i.e., they are too top heavy for the support located where the horses' hoof meets a plant/shrub on the base). Frontline's mounted figures all come with the pin and hole mentioned by JB, so that will not solve the problem nor will the museum wax. I really don't want to modify the figures, so I just periodically, slowly bend the leaning horse back into an upright position; I usually cheat a little by bending it past the proper position with the full knowlege that it will ultimately work its way back to its "natural" leaning position.

 

[johnnybach]

Sounds like Yosmanos's idea of a perspex rod cut to fit underneath the bendy parts might do the trick Mike. Then - the weight causing the bending of metal legs that are too malleable would be supported. I should think in the worst scenario - that repeatedly bending back a leg - might ultimately mean a fracture at some future point. Why not give it a try? It wouldn't mean modifying the figure at all - as it isn't fixed. jb

 

[maddadicus]

Thanks guys for your suggestions. However, the problem I have is that certain horses lean over due to a design flaw (i.e., they are too top heavy for the support located where the horses' hoof meets a plant/shrub on the base). Frontline's mounted figures all come with the pin and hole mentioned by JB, so that will not solve the problem nor will the museum wax. I really don't want to modify the figures, so I just periodically, slowly bend the leaning horse back into an upright position; I usually cheat a little by bending it past the proper position with the full knowlege that it will ultimately work its way back to its "natural" leaning position.

When I was collecting Trophy, my rearing horses would bend downward over time..My answer was to buy small diameter stiff wire cut to the proper height and wedged between horse's belly and base. No glue, just held in place by weight of horse and rider. Did not look too bad when done...On my present figures, especially for baseless horsemen, I glue the feet down to a wood stand in multiples of 2 horses side by side. My marching figures are treated this way, but as a unit of 6. ( Imagine war game mountings )That makes the soldiers easier to move about and they never fall over. MichaelMichael

 

[ucla1967]

JB and Michael,

I already have one Frontline mounted figure that has separated from the base due to me bending it back once too many times. I am not sure if the fix you recommend would work since they figures are not bending down, per se, but rather leaning over on their sides. I have noticed that all of the figures that have this problem are the ones with one of the horse's front legs in the air while both rear legs are attached to the base directly and indirectly via a shrub. It is that attached front leg that bends and causes the horse to lean over sideways. Now that I think of it, the last time I was riding a horse, it laid down on me, too.

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Mike. Sorrry - I thought you just had a loose mounted figure - and didn't realise from your pic that the horse-leg was deforming. Clearly, that front leg is too weak to support the weight on it - so that's the one that needs additional support. I have around a hundred horse figures with a front foot off the ground - and I have never had that problem even though it gets pretty hot here in the summer too. If I ever did - I would replace the leg with a strengthened re-cast, because I know that I can get them from Dorset Soldiers, and know how to do the required surgery. (Giles can cast pieces with different mixes of metal - which can be soft - or a harder mix for support). A straightish leg can also be cast with a strengthening steel pin inside it.

Of course this is pretty major surgery - and the item would need a repaint - which you probably wouldn't want to do. Maybe have a word with the manufacturer - as IF they are aware of the problem - they MAY have a solution. (The real long-term solution will involve the materials used and the design though, I'm sure.) . Shame that - it looks a really nice figure. jb

 

[Yosmanos]

Here is the perspex rod standalone (I took the top felt piece off this one), and in action with the cavalry figure from HS01, the Heirloom horses being known for "kneeling". As you can see the rod is virtually invisible, and when in situ with other soldiers around is not noticeable at all.

 

[johnnybach]

I must say Yos - I'm impressed with that idea - looks good. I don't appear to have any such problem at the moment with any of mine like that - but will certainly keep that idea at the back of my head - if I ever do. Thanks for the pic.^&grin johnnybach

 

[Drum]

There have been a few less than satisfactory equestrian designs in the Imperial catalog, the officer from Heirloom one being among the worst. All in all, I find that the Cowe baseless horse sculpts are among some of the highest achievements among the Imperial Productions masterworks. I much prefer a successful, baseless, horse sculpt to those with noticeable bases, but that is my bias, I know.

At some point, Imperial issued replacement horses for a few of there less successful efforts, but I cannot recall if these were the same sculpts or improved sculpts... or merely better alloys.

The rod idea is an excellent one.

I have also seen a very successfully repaired raring horse figure that had stiff wires inserted into the broken legs.

Good luck,
D