Coldstream Guards (1 Viewer)

[Davout71]

I notice in sets of both both metal and plastic Coldstream guards that some have hats with a green plume and a gold emblem while others have a simple black hat. Can anyone tell me if there is a particular meaning behind this? Are they from different units?

 

[Mister Dave]

I notice in sets of both both metal and plastic Coldstream guards that some have hats with a green plume and a gold emblem while others have a simple black hat. Can anyone tell me if there is a particular meaning behind this? Are they from different units?

Are you referring to Napoleonic era figures? If so, both Britains and King & Country have recently produced Coldstream Guard figures some of which have protective covers over their head gear to protect them from getting ruined by the wet weather. As such they would not be wearing their plumes and the unit insignia would be obscured. The green plumes designate members of the battalion's light company who acted as skirmishers and were generally some of the best marksmen in the battalion. White over red plumes and plain white plumes were worn by the remaining company's in the battalion to designate them as center or grenadier company troops. I hope this helps you out.

MD

 

[VIRIATO]

What about trousers? White for the Britains Coldstr., grey for the K&C. Which is right? Tryed to sort this out, but uniforms on the net come both with white and grey...

 

[Molloy]

What about trousers? White for the Britains Coldstr., grey for the K&C. Which is right? Tryed to sort this out, but uniforms on the net come both with white and grey...

Morning Viriato!

Apparently, the story with trouser colours (if I can recall this correctly) is this: British troops of the period usually wore looser white cotton trousers for summer wear, and service in hot climes, so these would be fairly standard for the Peninsula for example. Grey trousers were usually reserved for winter wear, but for one reason or another seem to have been the type worn by the majority of British infantry units participating in the Waterloo campaign (which seems appropriate enough in hindsight, as even though the fighting took place in early summer, the extremes of weather seen there - torrential rain, mud, etc., would probably have made them a good choice).

However, the Guards units, who were eternally a law unto themselves, seem to have worn white trousers in a significant way during the Hundred Days - at least according to most reference pictures and descriptions that I've come across. But that doesn't mean that grey trousers weren't worn by some Guards units.

So the short and sweet answer is essentially that both Britains and King & Country's individual takes on 1815 Coldstreamers are historically accurate. Though depicting the same regiment, they do feature different sub-units, as K&C's recent Coldstream releases feature members of one of the regiment's centre companies, whereas the Britains sets portrays members of the regiment's light company involved in the defence of Hougoumont. It is certainly conceivable that due to supply problems or a slow pace of the same, that two different companies even in the same battalion could be wearing different coloured trousers. After all, these weren’t considered quite as essential a uniform item, and an aid to recognition, as the red tunic for example.

It is quite perplexing stuff though, and exceptions to the norm like this do seem to pop up an awful lot with Guards units, as their traditions and practices past and present often seem to vary from the rest of the British Army. For example, since the first time I ever read a serious historical work on the Napoleonic period (I think it was an Osprey title many moons ago!), I’ve been aware that the facing colour of each individual British infantry regiment, as displayed on the collars and cuffs of the tunic, was the same colour that was used on the regimental ensign. When we come to Foot Guards regiments of the period though, as correctly displayed on K&C’s figures, we have dark blue uniform facings…..with a crimson/maroon standard???

Very confusing, to say the least!


Anyway, hope this is of some help to you mate!

Cheers,

Molloy.

 

[Davout71]

Thanks for the information guys. Not a different hat just a cover for the hat! I had also wondered about the trousers too as I saw on a painting guide that they were to be grey. However that issue has been answered too.

 

[fishead19690]

Molloy, You forgot to mention no white pants after labor day! Or is that just an american Woman thing???.........

 

[Mister Dave]

Molloy, You forgot to mention no white pants after labor day! Or is that just an american Woman thing???.........

 

[VIRIATO]

Morning Viriato!

Apparently, the story with trouser colours (if I can recall this correctly) is this: British troops of the period usually wore looser white cotton trousers for summer wear, and service in hot climes, so these would be fairly standard for the Peninsula for example. Grey trousers were usually reserved for winter wear, but for one reason or another seem to have been the type worn by the majority of British infantry units participating in the Waterloo campaign (which seems appropriate enough in hindsight, as even though the fighting took place in early summer, the extremes of weather seen there - torrential rain, mud, etc., would probably have made them a good choice).

However, the Guards units, who were eternally a law unto themselves, seem to have worn white trousers in a significant way during the Hundred Days - at least according to most reference pictures and descriptions that I've come across. But that doesn't mean that grey trousers weren't worn by some Guards units.

So the short and sweet answer is essentially that both Britains and King & Country's individual takes on 1815 Coldstreamers are historically accurate. Though depicting the same regiment, they do feature different sub-units, as K&C's recent Coldstream releases feature members of one of the regiment's centre companies, whereas the Britains sets portrays members of the regiment's light company involved in the defence of Hougoumont. It is certainly conceivable that due to supply problems or a slow pace of the same, that two different companies even in the same battalion could be wearing different coloured trousers. After all, these weren’t considered quite as essential a uniform item, and an aid to recognition, as the red tunic for example.

It is quite perplexing stuff though, and exceptions to the norm like this do seem to pop up an awful lot with Guards units, as their traditions and practices past and present often seem to vary from the rest of the British Army. For example, since the first time I ever read a serious historical work on the Napoleonic period (I think it was an Osprey title many moons ago!), I’ve been aware that the facing colour of each individual British infantry regiment, as displayed on the collars and cuffs of the tunic, was the same colour that was used on the regimental ensign. When we come to Foot Guards regiments of the period though, as correctly displayed on K&C’s figures, we have dark blue uniform facings…..with a crimson/maroon standard???

Very confusing, to say the least!


Anyway, hope this is of some help to you mate!

Cheers,

Molloy.

Thanks Molloy, interesting information.


Cheers,
Paulo

 

[Molloy]

Molloy, You forgot to mention no white pants after labor day! Or is that just an american Woman thing???.........

Whassat??! I'm gonna kick myself if this is something obvious, but I don't get it??!

Molloy.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Whassat??! I'm gonna kick myself if this is something obvious, but I don't get it??!

Molloy.

It doesn't apply if you are built like Rachel Bilson.
http://www.batchplease.com/2007/12/gasp.html

 

[Molloy]

It doesn't apply if you are built like Rachel Bilson.
http://www.batchplease.com/2007/12/gasp.html

Well, I could make any manner of exceptions for the lovely Ms. Bilson (although her mate in the OC was always the finer of the pair)! So if I'm reading this right, there's some sort of tradition in the US that you can't wear white trousers after Labour Day??

Cheers,

Molloy.

 

[theBaron]

So if I'm reading this right, there's some sort of tradition in the US that you can't wear white trousers after Labour Day??

Cheers,

Molloy.

That's apparently a fashion rule. Applies to women, men don't care, we wear what we want.

But the uniform trouser colors go back to the custom of gaiters, from the late 17th and early 18th century. In the summer, uniforms included gaiters made from lighter materials, which tended to be of a natural lighter color, like natural linen, but were, of course, then whitened with pipeclay. In the winter, heavier materials were used.

One possible origin for black as the color for cold-weather gaiters goes back to the First Silesian War, when Frederick the Great invaded Silesia. During the campaign, General de la Motte Fouque's troops occupied a Catholic monastery, and the general exacted a "contribution" from the abbey of black wool cloth, which was then used to outfit his soldiers with black gaiters. The cloth apparently wore better than the linen they were wearing. By the Seven Years War, the black gaiters had replaced the white linen, and year-round, too. Only the first batallion of the Foot Guards still wore white canvass as part of their uniform.

White linen crops up again, then in the later Prussian uniforms, as summer wear, and as trousers, as they replaced knee breeches and long gaiters. And white for summer, dark for winter, remained with the Prussian, later Imperial German, army uniform, until the field gray was introduced in 1910.

Prost!
Bradley

 

[Molloy]

That's apparently a fashion rule. Applies to women, men don't care, we wear what we want.

But the uniform trouser colors go back to the custom of gaiters, from the late 17th and early 18th century. In the summer, uniforms included gaiters made from lighter materials, which tended to be of a natural lighter color, like natural linen, but were, of course, then whitened with pipeclay. In the winter, heavier materials were used.

One possible origin for black as the color for cold-weather gaiters goes back to the First Silesian War, when Frederick the Great invaded Silesia. During the campaign, General de la Motte Fouque's troops occupied a Catholic monastery, and the general exacted a "contribution" from the abbey of black wool cloth, which was then used to outfit his soldiers with black gaiters. The cloth apparently wore better than the linen they were wearing. By the Seven Years War, the black gaiters had replaced the white linen, and year-round, too. Only the first batallion of the Foot Guards still wore white canvass as part of their uniform.

White linen crops up again, then in the later Prussian uniforms, as summer wear, and as trousers, as they replaced knee breeches and long gaiters. And white for summer, dark for winter, remained with the Prussian, later Imperial German, army uniform, until the field gray was introduced in 1910.

Prost!
Bradley

Cheers for clearing that one up for me, Brad - who says you can learn nothing apart from toy soldiers and military history here on the forum!

I can now confidently avoid any cringe-worthy fashion faux-pas if I ever make it over to your side of the Atlantic.

Thanks for the additional information about winter and summer uniform distinctions. It seems that the practice still survives in some quarters - while on a short holiday recently in Monaco, my parents, knowing I'd be interested, brought back plenty of pictures of the Compagnie des Carabiniers du Prince - which is effectively the ceremonial royal guard in the state:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnie_des_Carabiniers_du_Prince

Apparently they too sport different forms of dress for different seasons - when my parents were there (February of this year), and hence in the pictures, it was dark blue tunics, but by now, according to the guide book they brought back, the Carabiniers will have switched over to more practical white summer uniforms.

That practice also still occurs in some naval forces as well, if I'm correct??

Molloy.