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chalklands

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Hi,
Re the F&I war. I know British units carried two colours - Regimental and Kings. Would anyone know if this was this also true of the French?

Thanks
 
I remember reading that French regiments also had two flags but I believe that they were of the same design. I do not know how the flags were used in action pertaining to location in the line ie. marking the CO location and the line itself. -- lancer
 
Hi from a frenchman
French regiments have two sorts of flags. None of them have the number of the regiment.
There is only a white flag with a white cross ( sewing is visible) ,sometimes with
lis flowers in the cross;this flag is the sign of commander:the colonel.
It is found in the first company of the first bataillon which is called the "compagnie colonelle".
There are others flags : in general three in a bataillon ( 2 in the 1st). They are used to rally the soldiers and are the real colors of the regiment:these flags are called the "drapeaux d'ordonnance". In general ,there is a great white cross (for France) and 4 squares of various paints. There is always a white "cravatte" at the top of the pole.
It also can have some words in the cross: for example ," compagnies franches de la marine" have " Per mare et terras"
You can find more in these sites:
Pfef.free.fr
Fotw flags of the world ( + Kingdom of France regiment flags historical index)
In new France , regular regiments have their second battaillon or their 2 and 3rd. I don't think they have the drapeau colonelle except for the troups of Marine.
best regards for all the readers
 
Welcome to the forum, lamiral,
and thank you very much for the info.
 
Thanks for the information Lamiral, very interesting.
It would be nice for a manufacturer (JJD or Frontline) to issue one of these white 'colonel' flags. IMO it woudn't even need to be a complete new figure just a different flag.

I also wonder how many drummers each regiment had (British & French). 1 per company? Also were there just drummers in the 18th C or fifers etc as well?
 
chalklands said:
Thanks for the information Lamiral, very interesting.
It would be nice for a manufacturer (JJD or Frontline) to issue one of these white 'colonel' flags. IMO it woudn't even need to be a complete new figure just a different flag.

I also wonder how many drummers each regiment had (British & French). 1 per company? Also were there just drummers in the 18th C or fifers etc as well?
Click to expand...

Fifes and drums, and woodwinds, too. And apart from providing a beat for the march, or issuing commands, the musicians could be brought together into a band to provide music for entertainments, too.

If I'm not mistaken, in the royal French army, the musicians were paid for by the crown and wore the King's livery (blue coats with royal lace), rather than being paid for by the regimental commander and wearing uniforms paid for out of his pocket, as in the Prussian army, for example.

Prost!
Brad
 
Hello
I got more informations upon our periode.
By royal ordonnance of february the 18 th of 1749, the regimental flags are reduced to two by battalion.
The flag is wore by a lieutnant who have two sergeants of fusiliers besides ,one on his left and the other on his right.so in march .
By regulation of 1753, we have the battle order.
In fighting ,the two flags are placed in the middle of the files of the fusiliers.in two different "peletons" ( engl. sections ?)
The fusiliers companies are place in four ranks.
The file of the flag is in this order : 1 st rank a sergeant , 2nd the flag , 3rd a corporal ,4th a private;
These informations are quoted from Charrié Pierre in " drapeaux et étendards du roy " This book in french is no available (1989 edition)
 
Hello. Thanks Brad , I know I must improve my english . Sometimes it is boresome to take a dictionnary. I beg you 'll forgive me for all the mistakes to come.
To answer to the matter of drummers ,I found a royal ordonnance that states that drummers wear the livery of their colonel ,february The 18th , 1729.That is before the Seven years war.
For these times , I discover a site many of you may know : " project SYW".
This is interesting because this remembers to me the ordonnance of January the 10 th 1747.It is said that drummers wear the royal livery in certain regiments and the colonel livery in others.
For the regular regiments of Montcalm , all have the royal livery .
If you click in the site upon french army ,you see that in regiments which have the name of great families as Orléans or personnal names as Mailly for example,drummers have the colonel livery.
I didn't find who pays the drummers , but in France for the militia regiments , I read that
colonel or captain of the company have to give the pay of his soldiers , but that the common grey coat of uniform and all the weapons were of royal issue.
Thierry
 
Hi, Thierry, I apologize if my meaning has been mistaken, I meant to add to the discussion, not correct. Believe me, your English is far better than my French is :)

Another good site used to be Nec Pluribus Impar (http://vial.jean.free.fr/new_npi/) , but the editor of that site scaled back his efforts, and doesn't update it as frequently as he used to. But the archive has a ton of articles on the army of Louis XV, and the other combattants in the Seven Years War, and the Wars of the Austrian Succession. Very heavy on the French units, of course, but there is also a lot of information on the Imperial troops, as well.

Prost!
Brad
 
The only tidbit that I have come across - which could be wildly wrong - is that the French regimental colors could be used to mark the boundaries of each regiment during a battle. That's one reason there would be two identical flags for each regiment. Also, the combination of both regimental flags could mark the location of a commander such as the case with Montcalm at Ticonderoga. That appears to be how they are used in the portraits.
 
Hello,
To Brad , no I was not angry for what you said
I thank you for the web site . I knew him but I never went through the main page because i beleived It was paying . This afternoon ,I went on it and I discovered a lot of pages : many hours ot delightfull reading.
To Combat , I don't think we can consider that french ordonnance flags are the boundaries of the regiment. they were two at the times of fort Carillon ( I prefer this name because it sounds at our ears because a "carillon" is a group of bells)but no long before the regumlation they were three and in 1720 when the companies were àf 100 men ,there was a flag in each company , so a regiment could have 14-18 flags for the whole.
In Montcalm's times , the companies have been reduced to 50-40 men and the flags also reduced in number.
French ordonnance flags have three main uses : first of all they are the name of the regiment ,clearly visible ( each regiment has his pattern and colors =paints), besides ,they are the mark of the physical presence of the regiment at this spot , but the two flags are not placed at each corner of it but in the middle of the center companies where there is the most number of men waiting to protect them. Third the flag is a constant sign of rally for the men of the regiment during the battle :we don't forget all the smoke dued to musketry , that why the flags of thesse times are of so great dimensions.
There is one point which annoys me; I saw the picture in the Osprey book upon Ticonderoga and I wonder why Moncalm as commander in chief and so representative of the king has not a white flag as he ought to have.
Best regards for everybody
Thierry
 
Thierry is right, the flags serve as the rallying point in action, for dressing the lines, for example, whether at the halt and in firing positions, and also when a line moves forward. That's pretty much common to all of the armies of the 18th century, and even before and after that era.
 
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