Confederate carbine? (1 Viewer)

[trooper]

I have in my possession an Enfield carbine as exported to the Confederacy. The butt is marked 5 DG (5th Dragoon Guards) but there is also 1 Va stamped into the lock plate. Obviously I would be over the moon if this could indicate the 1st Virginia Cavalry but I can find no reference to unit marking of weapons for the ACW at all. Can anyone help with this? Were Confederate arms marked in this way, and,if so, would these marks indicate the 1st Virginia Cav?

 

[Captain]

I have never heard of a Confederate ordnance depot or units ever marking their arms. That sort of thing was done by individuals to their personal pcs. The use of stamps would be extremely rare as so few would have had access to the stamps. Is it an Artillery Musketoon?

 

[trooper]

I have never heard of a Confederate ordnance depot or units ever marking their arms. That sort of thing was done by individuals to their personal pcs. The use of stamps would be extremely rare as so few would have had access to the stamps. Is it an Artillery Musketoon?

No, definitely cavalry carbine, Enfield pattern 1853, exactly as shown in "Fighting Men of the Civil War" by William c. Davis page77 item 9. The mark is quite shallow but obviously a stamp and not an engraving.

 

[Cardigan600]

I have in my possession an Enfield carbine as exported to the Confederacy. The butt is marked 5 DG (5th Dragoon Guards) but there is also 1 Va stamped into the lock plate. Obviously I would be over the moon if this could indicate the 1st Virginia Cavalry but I can find no reference to unit marking of weapons for the ACW at all. Can anyone help with this? Were Confederate arms marked in this way, and,if so, would these marks indicate the 1st Virginia Cav?

Yo Trooper Alan, thanks once again for the photo's of the 5th Dragoon Standard. As for the Carbine, man its an item to die for, marked the the 5th DGs, with all respect for our US guys & the Confederacy. I wouldn't give a toss if it never went to that war. (sorry UK Reb) Just think it could have been used at Balaklava in the Heavy Brigade charge. WOW the thought makes me tingle.
By the way I have two massive volumes of Collectors magazines 54 complete set issued weekly in 1939, and they just contain everything you want to know about anything photo's as well, I will have a look Alan see if I can find any info for you. An article from them just caught my eye. The total cost of the Civil war 1861-1865 was £1,400,000,000. The Federal expenses were £940,000,000. The confederate expenses were £460,000,00. The cost in lives was 800,000. God Bless us who worked that one out.
Bernard.

 

[trooper]

Bernard, you are quite right the carbine is exciting in it's own right even without the Confederate connection. I am still trying to find out if there are any records still existing as to when and to whom it was issued. A very long shot, but miracles do sometimes occur. I have also contacted the Museum of the Confederacy but have received no acknowledgement or reply. With reference to your comments about the cost of the Civil War, an astonishing fact is the ammunition expenditure. At the First Battle of Bull Run in 1861 it is estimated that 9,000 rounds were fired for each of the 4,074 men hit that day, and at Murfreesboro in 1863 the Union troops expended 2,000,000 rounds to kill or wound 25,560 Confederates over a three day period. At Fort Laramie in 1864 four companies of the 11th Ohio Cavbalry fired nearly 1,000 rounds at a prisoner who had assaulted an officer and was making an attempt to escape. There was only one hit.

 

[wadepat]

Bernard, you are quite right the carbine is exciting in it's own right even without the Confederate connection. I am still trying to find out if there are any records still existing as to when and to whom it was issued. A very long shot, but miracles do sometimes occur. I have also contacted the Museum of the Confederacy but have received no acknowledgement or reply. With reference to your comments about the cost of the Civil War, an astonishing fact is the ammunition expenditure. At the First Battle of Bull Run in 1861 it is estimated that 9,000 rounds were fired for each of the 4,074 men hit that day, and at Murfreesboro in 1863 the Union troops expended 2,000,000 rounds to kill or wound 25,560 Confederates over a three day period. At Fort Laramie in 1864 four companies of the 11th Ohio Cavbalry fired nearly 1,000 rounds at a prisoner who had assaulted an officer and was making an attempt to escape. There was only one hit.

Hi Trooper,

Wow! You cite some very remarkable statistics. What is the source of your information? I would be interested in learning more. If, at Murfreesboro, the Union troops expended 2,000,000 rounds, what must they have expended at Gettysburg, Antietam, Shiloh, or Chancellorsville? The number must be enormous.

Thanks for sharing such interesting data!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[trooper]

Hi Pat, information was taken from an article by Wayne R. Austerman on Men and Materiel in America's Civil War magazine of September 2005. He goes on to speak of an Englishman, a former officer of the 24th, serving as a captain in the Confederate artillery, Stephen Winthrop. At Knoxville the Confederate troops were being held up by Union cavalry armed with Spencer repeaters, Captain Winthrop spurred his horse forward and charged toward the enemy lines on his own with every man in the Union line firing at him, two shots hit his sword. He then halted his horse and yelled for the Union troops to surrender, was told to go to hell and had the entire line fire a volley at him. One shot hit him in the shoulder. The Rebs, inspired by this , charged and broke the line. Don't know how many rounds were fired at him, but it must have been a lot, an entire regiment popping away with Spencers.

 

[wadepat]

Hi Trooper,

Thanks for the reference. I will see if I can locate a copy of that article. It should be a very interesting read.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[Spitfrnd]

Hi Pat, information was taken from an article by Wayne R. Austerman on Men and Materiel in America's Civil War magazine of September 2005. He goes on to speak of an Englishman, a former officer of the 24th, serving as a captain in the Confederate artillery, Stephen Winthrop. At Knoxville the Confederate troops were being held up by Union cavalry armed with Spencer repeaters, Captain Winthrop spurred his horse forward and charged toward the enemy lines on his own with every man in the Union line firing at him, two shots hit his sword. He then halted his horse and yelled for the Union troops to surrender, was told to go to hell and had the entire line fire a volley at him. One shot hit him in the shoulder. The Rebs, inspired by this , charged and broke the line. Don't know how many rounds were fired at him, but it must have been a lot, an entire regiment popping away with Spencers.

Fasinating Trooper; and to think that everone thought the opening scene in Dances with Wolves was unbelievable.

 

[trooper]

Have received reply from the Museum of the Confederacy who state that imported arms were very rarely marked. In fact most Confederate marked arms were those US weapons captured in arms stores at the outbreak of war and even those are extremely rare. So it looks as though the marks on mine stand for something else. even so, as Bernard commented, it's still a nice piece to have.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Have received reply from the Museum of the Confederacy who state that imported arms were very rarely marked. In fact most Confederate marked arms were those US weapons captured in arms stores at the outbreak of war and even those are extremely rare. So it looks as though the marks on mine stand for something else. even so, as Bernard commented, it's still a nice piece to have.

No doubt about that, can you post some pictures?

 

[Njja]

Very interesting, I had an Ames Calvary Sword issued to the Massachusetts

Militia, along with a book on Civil War identification for quite a long time. Most

of the Union Arms were received and stamped which makes it much easier to

determine what there possible history could be.

I sold it quite a few years ago when I purchased several original German

Lugers. The Germans were even more inspection and stamping conscious.....

making their items interesting also to collect.

You have a great item there, I hope you enjoy it!