Does the Gold Tiger goes with the older HB figure releases? (1 Viewer)

[nasirkasmani]

Guys,

For those who have bought the gold Tiger and previous HB figure sets -

Do the figures from the gold Tiger goes with previous HB figure sets?
(i mean in terms of size/proportion and colour tone?)

e.g - winter tiger crew with ski troops/Wehrmacht Infantry Food Line

or - tiger with with german infantry/German Paratroopers with British Prisoner


I had the Tiger and was delighted with the HB Tiger crew (size,tone,detail)

If the previous HB releases are the same standard, i'll probably get some for my upcoming diorama.

Thank you in advance,

sincerely,

nasir kasmani.

 

[fmethorst]

Hi Nasir,

I've been selective in the HB figure sets I've bought. Some of the really early sets such as HB03a/b German Infantry don't appeal to me. The sets I have purchased such as HB10 Wehrmacht Snow Troops, HB08a Winter Field Kitchen and Food Line, HB06a Field Kitchen have been outstanding.

The sizes do vary somewhat. HB010, for instance is quite tall and match up with K&C for size.

The colors are very consistent and match up very well to the Gold Tiger.

Here is a couple shots of HB06a and HB11c and the Gold Tiger

 

[nmrocks]

That is definately a Bad *** Tank!
Ray

 

[nasirkasmani]

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the beautiful pics.

Im thinking of a winter diorama, and was thinking of getting the winter food line.

Can you kindly post the winter food line figures with the ski troops?

if there's not much disparity i'm thinking of buying both.

thanks again Frank.

Sincerely,

Nasir Kasmani.

 

[fmethorst]

Hi Nasir,

Those are great sets. A couple points of note. One of the guys in the Winter Food Line is holding an SVT40 (captured Soviet rifle) so I'm thinking eastern front. One of the guys in the Wehrmacht Snow Troops has a Panzerfaust in his sled. Depending on the variant (30/60/100) this limits his use to the winters of '43/'44 and '44/'45. You can always use the other three figures for earlier scenes.

 

[nasirkasmani]

Wow Frank,

Those are excellent sets.

The details are outstanding, but the flesh tone does seems pale isn't it?

I use my Gold Tiger crew (outstanding) as a reference, and the Winter Food Line and Wehrmacht Snow Troops from the pics seems a bit too whitish?

pls assist to confirm this Frank.

Sincerely,

Nasir Kasmani.

 

[fmethorst]

HB figures are definitely paler than K&C. These sets compare well with the Tiger crew in regards to color.

Keep in mind this is winter as well so they should look a little pasty not to mention the flash washes things out a bit.

Frank

 

[nasirkasmani]

frank,

need your opinion here.

do you know any operations where the Waffen SS and whermacht Gebirsjager/ski troops were grouped under the the same Kampfgruppe (battle group?)

If im not mistaken 1 of the operation is during Ardennes offensive.

As you may already guess, i'm trying to incorporate the HB ski troops to a diorama involving the waffen ss.

pls help.

sincerely,

nasir kasmani.

 

[fmethorst]

Hi Nasir,

I can't think of any instances of Gebirgs Divisions being employed in the west. As for joint operations with Waffen SS diviisons in the east I don't know. There were so many offensive and defensive operations that it is certainly possible. An eastern scenario would be the only one that I think would be plausible.

As for the Battle of the Bulge. I think there is a general impression that this was a very snowy affair from the start. This simply isn't the case. If one looks at pictures from the battle you will notice the conditions lean more towards the rainy side. The German AFVs certainly didn't sport any whitewash (at least I haven't been able to find a single picture showing otherwise). Later on there was definitely snow but not in the initial stages. Here is an OOB for German forces during this battle.

ORDER OF BATTLE for German forces involved in "Wacht am Rhein"

Army Group B
HQ Army Group B
PzAOK.5
HQ PzAOK.5
XXXIX.PzK
HQ XXXIX.PzK
167th VG Div
LVIII.PzK
HQ LVIII.PzK
116th Panzer Div
560th VG Div
Corps Troops
VolksWerfer.Brig.7
401st Volksartillerie Corps
FlaK.Btl.266
FlaK.Btl.497
LXVI.AK
HQ LXVI.AK
18th VG Div
62nd VG Div
Corps Troops
VolksWerfer.Brig.16
Le.FlaK.Btl.74
Art.Btl.460
StuG.Bde.244
SS.Art.Regt.10
XLVII.PzK
HQ XLVII.PzK
2nd Panzer Div
9th Panzer Div
Panzer Lehr Div
26th VG Div
Führer Begleit Bde
Corps Troops
VolksWerfer.Brig.15
766th Volksartillerie Corps
s.Art.Bty.1124
s.Mrs.Bty.1119
Pio.Btl.600
FlaK.Btl.182
Brücko J.846
Army Troops
s.Pz.Jäg.Btl.653
Pio.Btl.207
Ost.Btl.669
Army Artillery
PzAOK.6
HQ PzAOK.6
I.SS.PzK (1st SS Corps)
HQ I.SS.PzK
1st SS Pz Div
12th SS Pz Div
3rd Fallschirmjäger Div
12th VG Div
277th Infantry Div
150th Pz Bde
Corps Troops
388th Volksartillerie Corps
402nd Volksartillerie Corps
VolksWerfer.Brig.4
VolksWerfer.Brig.9
SS.s.Art.Abt.501
II.SS.PzK (2nd SS Corps)
HQ II.SS.PzK
2nd SS Pz Div
9th SS Pz Div
Corps Troops
SS.s.Art.Abt.502
SS.Werfer.Btl.502
LXVII.AK
HQ LXVII.AK
3rd PzG Div.
246th VG Div
272nd VG Div
326th VG Div
Corps Troops
405th Volksartillerie Corps
VolksWerfer.Brig.17
StuG.Bde.902
Sturmrs.Ko.1000/1001
Army Troops
KG v.d.Heydte
Pio.Btl.62
Pio.Btl.73
Pio.Btl.253
Pio.Brücken.Btl.655
s.Pz.Btl.506
Pz.Jäg.Btl.741
SturmPz.Abt.217
StuG.Bde.394
StuH.Bde.667
Army Artillery
Brücko J.844
Brücko J.851
Brücko J.895
Brücko J.175
AOK.7
HQ AOK.7
LIII.AK
HQ LIII.AK
9th VG Div
15th PzG Div
Führer Grenadier Bde
LXXX.AK
HQ LXXX.AK
212th VG Div
276th VG Div
340th VG Div
Corps Troops
408th Volksartillerie Corps
VolksWerfer.Brig.8
LXXXV.AK
HQ LXXXV.AK
5th Fallschirmjäger Div
352nd VG Div
79th VG Div
Corps Troops
406th Volksartillerie Corps
VolksWerfer.Brig.18
Army Troops
Pio.Btl.677
Pio.Brücken.Btl.605
Brücko J.974
Fla.Regt.15
Fest.Btl.999
s.Pz.Jäg.Btl.657
s.Pz.Jäg.Btl.668
MG.Btl.44
Army Artillery
Luftwaffe
LG1
KG51
KG66
KG76
SG4
NSGr.2
OKW Reserves
HQ OKW Reserves
10th SS Pz Div
11th Panzer Div

 

[fmethorst]

Hi Nasir,

Can you give me more specifics around the Waffen SS unit you want to use?

Frank

 

[Halo]

Nice breakdown.

 

[Beaufighter]

A captured white Tiger and lots of snow too...

Looking forward to the future releases from the "Bulge"!

Beaufighter OVER & OUT

 

[fmethorst]

A captured white Tiger and lots of snow too...

Looking forward to the future releases from the "Bulge"!

Beaufighter OVER & OUT

Hi Beaufighter,

I don't dispute that there was snow later into the offensive. My point was that at the start (Dec 16 1944) there wasn't snow.

That picture is very difficult to determine colors from. I've included a higher res image to reference.

The Tiger in question is 03 Stab/s.H.Pz.Abt.506. This unit was attached to II SS Panzer Korps and commited Dec 21 1944 in the direction of Bastogne. I have no idea when the picture was taken but this tank has already been pushed off the road. The unit was withdrawn in late January.

Since many black and white photos of the period display considerable glare it is very difficult to determine color from top surfaces. In addition snow is sitting on the vehicle. The side of the turret clearly shows camouflage as does the barrel. I rate this picture as possible whitewash but inconclusive.

BTW I enjoy the "Bulge Series"

Frank

 

[nasirkasmani]

Hi Frank,

I have a strong inclination to winter eastern front diorama.

I think it fully completes the hell the soldiers went thru in what is the worst campaign of the whole war.

The Germans were in foreign land, short of supply, freezing to death, equipment and vehicles malfunction under the freezing weather, harrassed to death by the cossacks, massively outnumbered by a huge enemy, and not allowed to retreat - anybody who endured that deserved my respect.

That is why i wanted to depict the Waffen ss in this scenario, but would also want to acknowledge that the Whermacht too stand up and fight to the bitter end.

The most famous Waffen SS campaigns in winter that i know was - 1943 Kharkov 3rd battle, 1944 Korsun Cherkassy pocket, 1945 Operation Konrad I & II.

For the kharkov battle, no ski troops were present as only SS LAH, SS Das Reich,SS Totenkopf with Heer Grossdeutchsland involved to destroy the 3 soviet armies.

as for the other 2, i hope there is some historical proofs of ski troops involvement.

Ultimately, if there were any other less known battles, i will gladly consider.

Sincerely,

Nasir Kasmani.

 

[fmethorst]

Hi Nasir,

Some other SS actions to consider:

• Zhitomir - Berdichew (Dec 1943 - Jan 1944)
• Tarnopol (Apr 1944) not much snow in pics
• Kovel (Mar 1944 - Apr 1944)

Velikiye Luki (Nov 1942 - Jan 1943) comes to mind although I don't believe Waffen SS units were present. The 3 Gebirgs Division was, however.

Another unit to consider is the 6th SS Gebirgs Division "Nord" which spent much of its time in the north. This article refrences an elite ski unit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_SS_Mountain_Division_Nord

Did you want armor involved?

Frank

 

[nasirkasmani]

Hi Frank,

You are right about the 3 battles you mentioned, i saw their pics in the book "SS Armor in the Eastern Front", but as the book covered SS armored troops, theres no proof of gebirsjager presence.

i want to incorporate Armor in my diorama, hopefully the SS soldiers hitching a ride on top of the tank/s.

 

[Beaufighter]

ROGER THAT Frank-I was just adding to your detailed assessment which I enjoyed as I spend a lot of time studying this battle. The diverse weather really did play such a role at the Bulge! Thanks again!

OVER & OUT,
Beaufighter

 

[fmethorst]

ROGER THAT Frank-I was just adding to your detailed assessment which I enjoyed as I spend a lot of time studying this battle. The diverse weather really did play such a role at the Bulge! Thanks again!

OVER & OUT,
Beaufighter

I appreciate your responses. I really am looking for evidence of whitewash use by the Germans in the Battle of the Bulge. Due to the lack of snow at the start (at least the pictures I've seen) it seems unlikely units would have applied it before the start. In addition it was water soluable so rain would wash it off. I suppose it could have been applied later into the battle.

BTW I recently got the book

Duel in the Mist
The LAH during the Ardennes Offensive
Volume 1: Kampfgruppe Peiper-Stoumont
19th December 1944

http://www.rzm.com/books/afv/duel.cfm

Which I found very good although quite pricey.

Frank

 

[Beaufighter]

Cheers Frank:

Thanks for the further information especially the book link. I have to get that one especially since 19 December marks by birthday. Looking forward to more information regarding the whitewash too. When I get home I will be searching through the library here at my B.O.O.

All The Best,
Beaufighter

 

[fmethorst]

Back to Nasir's original request.

I haven't been able to locate anything particularly useful in regards to ski units around SS operations. I admit I've been working on a division level so this wouldn't capture any unit subordination (i.e. company X attached to division Y. I'm also not sure if regular units may have made use of skiers for scouting and the like. I am getting a feeling they played a bigger role in the north.

Personally I think you could take some creative license with this idea.

As for a couple of the major battles you mentioned I've included OOBs for the Axis so you can at least see the major units.

Order of Battle for Axis at Korsun-Cherkassy

Army Group South
PzA.1 (1st Panzer Army)
VII.AK (7th Corps)
34th Infantry Div
75th Infantry Div
198th Infantry Div
StuG.Abt.202
StuG.Abt.209
StuG.Abt.281
Pio.Btl.215
Arko.124
PzJag.Abt.471
XLII.AK (42nd Corps)
Korps Abt B
88th Infantry Div
Aserbeidschan.Btl.101
Geb.Pio.Btl.74
III.PzK (3rd Pz Corps)
1st SS Pz Div
1st Panzer Div
16th Panzer Div
17th Panzer Div
Pz.Abt.506
KG Baeke
StuG.Abt.249
Arko.3
Pio.Btl.627 (Mot)
Bridge.Pio.Btl.655
Bridge.Pio.Btl.922
Pio.Btl.127 (Mot)
Pio.Btl.213 (Mot)
Bridge.Pio.Btl.609
Bridge.Btl.I/106
Werfer.Brig.1
STURM.Btl.PzA.1
Ukr.Abt.6
Art.Div.311
Fla.Div.10
Kos.Btl.I/5
Kos.Btl.574
AOK.8 (8th Army)
XI.AK (11th Corps)
5th SS Pz Div (Wiking)
SS.Inf.Sturmbrig.5 (Wallonien)
72nd Infantry Div
389th Infantry Div.
StuG.Abt.226
Pio.Btl.666 (Mot)
Arko.411
XLVII.PzK (47th Pz Corps)
3rd Panzer Div
11th Panzer Div
13th Panzer Div
14th Panzer Div
106th Infantry Div
282nd Infantry Div
320th Infantry Div
376th Infantry Div
Feld'f.Abt.18 (Penal)
StuG.Abt.8
StuG.Abt.203
sStu.Abt.905
StuG.Abt.911
Arko.411
I/Pz.26
10th Panzer Grenadier Div
Pio.Btl.52 (Mot)
Werfer.Regt.59
Army Reserve
24th Panzer Div
VIII Fliegerkorps
Aufk.Gruppe
KG.1
KG.27
KG.55
JG.1
LG.2
KG.30
Army Group South Supply Corps


Order of Battle for Axis forces during Operation Konrad I/II/III (Budapest)


Heersgruppe Sud
6.AOK
LVII.PzK
3.Panzer Division
8.Panzer Div.
20.Panzer Div
211.VG Div
357.VG Div
Szent-Laszlo Inf Div
LVII.PzKTroops
R.Gr.Div. HuD(44.I.D.)
Komarom City Garrison
13.Pz.Jg.Abt
Pz.Abt.208
MG.Bn.Sachsen
Flak.Abt.286
Gneisenau
IV.SS PzK
3.SS "Totenkopf"
5.SS "Wiking"
6.Panzer Div
96.Infantry Div
711.VG Div
I./24.Pz.Abt
s.Pz.Abt.509
sPz.Abt.525
III.PzK
Div.Gr Pape
Div.Gr.Bieber(271.VG Div)
I.KavK
1.Panzer Div
23.Panzer Div
4.Kav.Br.
s.Pz.Abt.503
Pz.Rgt.6 (det 3.Pz)
I.KK.(Troops)
3.Kav.Bde (below) needed for 22 Jan
3.Kav.Br.
IX.SS.Gebs.K
HQ IX.SS.Gebs.K. Stab
8.SS KavD "Florian Geyer"
22.SS.KavD.Maria Teresia
FHH.Panzer Div
13.Panzer Div
1.SS Polizei Rgt
12.Flak.sturm.rgt
Gr.Kundiger (271.VG)
500.z.b.V.
I./959
504.NbW.Abt
I./127.Pio.Br
II./127.Pio.Br
59.Bruko
I Corps (Hungarian)
10th Infantry Div
12th Infantry Div
1st Armored Div
201st AAA Bn
206th AAA Bn
208th AAA Bn
217th AAA Bn
I Corps AAA Bn
4th Hussar Regiment
I Parachute Bn SL
II Parachute Bn SL
9/II Szalasi Body Guard
Group Billnitzer
Royal Gendarmerie
Budapest Police
IV Corps Eng Bn
VIII Corps Eng Bn
IX Corps Eng Bn
201st Tech Bn
202nd Tech Bn
203rd Tech Bn
110th Eng Bn
112th Eng Bn
153rd Eng Bn
101st Assault Boat Co
102nd Assault Boat Co
132nd Bridge Co
138th Bridge Co
401st Bridge Co
404th Bridge Co
I/1-2 Construction Co
III/1-2 Construction Co
101st Hi Cmd Elec Gen Sec
104th Rail Cons Appl Col
109th Wk Shp Co
107th Rail Cons Co
110th Rail Cons Co
111th Rail Cons Co
101st Rail Cons Bn
102nd Rail Cons Bn
104th Rail Cons Bn
102nd Towed Chem WF Bn
101st Repair Bn
72nd Hi Volt Elec Obs Grp
KISKA Detachments
Vannay Bn
ELTE KISKA Bn
Hungarista Univ Rec Bn
I Budapest Assalt Bn
II Budapest Assault Bn
Hungarista Cbt Grps
Ferenc Kubinyi Cbt Grp
G. von Hellebronth Cbt Grp
Militia Bn
Institutes and Logistics
6.AOK Troops
52.Pio.Br
Sturmart.Bde 303
17.Volks-Werfer.Br
19.Volks-Werfer.Br
403.V.A.K.
3rd Army (Hungarian)
VIII Corps
1st Hussar Div
2nd Armored Div
23rd Infantry Div
II Corps
25th Infantry Div
3rd Field Repl Div
20th Infantry Div
Luftwaffe
1./KG 4
2./KG 4
3./KG 4
7./KG 4
8./KG 4
9./KG 4
3.(H)/14
3.(H)/21