First Legion on EBAY (2 Viewers)

oberstoskar

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How's retired First Legion stuff selling on Ebay?

Is there high demand? Do the bids usually go higher than retail?
 
How's retired First Legion stuff selling on Ebay?

Is there high demand? Do the bids usually go higher than retail?

I don't remember seeing any on e-bay. There are none on there now. There are some Collectors Showcase, mostly Buy It Now from a few dealers. a few Honour Bound and about 100 Figarti, again mostly dealers or e-bay stores.

I would bet the best place to sell or buy FL would be on the Treefrog Changing Guard Auctions where the buyers are more knowledgeable and familiar with FL.

Terry
 
There have been quite a few First Legion Napoleonics on Ebay. I haven't seen any of the other two series. Most of these have been from the UK and have gone above retail. The volumes have been relatively small consistent with the smaller release size. Of course not that many people want to get rid of theirs but if you do, let me know.;) I have had several great transactions for FL Napoleonic figures with members here.:cool:
 
I think the sales do ok but there haven't been that many sales. My feeling is that generally people aren't that interested in selling, which could be, in part, due to the fact that the product is generally available from FL so that a seller will not turn a profit (if that's the motivation).
 
I think the sales do ok but there haven't been that many sales. My feeling is that generally people aren't that interested in selling, which could be, in part, due to the fact that the product is generally available from FL so that a seller will not turn a profit (if that's the motivation).

Aren't some of the early figures out of production and out of stock so the only way a new FL collector could get them is in the secondary market?

Terry
 
I can't answer that question but the items I had looked at on ebay were all in current production.
 
Aren't some of the early figures out of production and out of stock so the only way a new FL collector could get them is in the secondary market?

Terry
None of the Napoleonics are sold out but most French Line figures are out of stock. The French Line are awaiting a new production run which Matt has said is in process. There was one large set of British Guards that I was following for bid that went well over even UK retail, which with UK taxes is quite a bit above the cost in NA.
 
Spitfnd

"None of the Napoleonics are sold out but most French Line figures are out of stock. The French Line are awaiting a new production run which Matt has said is in process. There was one large set of British Guards that I was following for bid that went well over even UK retail, which with UK taxes is quite a bit above the cost in NA. "

The 17 British Gaurds recently selling on e bay were purchased for £660 the UK price of these figures from TM Terrain would have been £710

TM charge £40 for standard figures and £55 for those figures bearing regimental colours.

A 57th French Line infantry fusilier charging recently sold on e bay for £15.66 which would be £30 new from TM terrain in the UK ( if they had any)

These figures are tightly held, as we were all led to believe they are extremely Limited edition figures, Produced only in small quantities I have recieved no response to my earlier post asking for confirmation that they are in fact only produced in the numbers specified on the website.

How do we the retail customers know we are buying something from a limited production run. Given the quality and popularity of these figures it would be tempting for any manufacturer to meet demand accordingly which would obviously devalue any investment.

Could Matt please respond to my question with assurances that only the numbers specified will be produced. And if this is the case could we see boxes numbered to reflect the exclusivity we are paying for ? This should increase sales as customers hurry to get what they want before they are all sold out. and will instill confidence in collectors who would own a true limited edition item.

Are the additional French Line units which are to be produced being sold for £34.95 when ready as shown on the FL website ?. As the latest French Gaurd releases are priced at $49.95 $59.95 $69.95 respectively. There is some disparity here or has the site not yet been updated to reflect any price changes.

Generally speaking no one in their right mind would pay more for a figure on E bay than is asked for a new figure direct from the manufacturer.

The auctions for FL figures on e bay that I have followed have mainly been for units still in production and in all cases the selling price has been less than the new price direct from FL.

I believe that provided figures are only produced in limited numbers stated FL figures will appreciate in value over time as they are no longer available, I was surprised by this decision to produce further French line infantry units as I was under the impression that once they were sold that was it.
 
....The auctions for FL figures on e bay that I have followed have mainly been for units still in production and in all cases the selling price has been less than the new price direct from FL.
That has not been my experience and certainly they have often gone for more that retail to NA or I would have bought them.;) I didn't follow that Guard batch to the end but at that price it sold for $300 more than I could buy them for even assuming shipping was the same. If I were stuck with UK prices I am still not sure I would have gone for that 7% deduction, which is pretty close to retail, versus buying from an established retail source.:)

I believe that provided figures are only produced in limited numbers stated FL figures will appreciate in value over time as they are no longer available, I was surprised by this decision to produce further French line infantry units as I was under the impression that once they were sold that was it.
I think your surprise may derive from the assumption that FL produces all of its figures for a release at one time, which Matt has said here they did not do for the French Line. He has also said clearly that a series will not be discontinued until its allocated production number has been sold. The initial production of French Line was for half of that as I recall. So it is not a question of producing more, only staging the production for what was initially allocated.;)
 
When I decided not to collect FL Naps. I sold the french Artillery set and all 6 of the Russian Hussars individually, all went for below retail with a couple of the hussars needing multiple listings to sell.
 
When I decided not to collect FL Naps. I sold the french Artillery set and all 6 of the Russian Hussars individually, all went for below retail with a couple of the hussars needing multiple listings to sell.
I know. It is a pity for me they were not French or British.:(
 
When I decided not to collect FL Naps. I sold the french Artillery set and all 6 of the Russian Hussars individually, all went for below retail with a couple of the hussars needing multiple listings to sell.

I had several that I offered here below retail (when I decided not to collect Napoleonics) and they were quickly snapped up.
 
Against my better judgement, I will respond to some of the questions and comments made in this thread.

1. The Bavarians are "retired" the French Line Infantry are out of stock. No more of these Bavarians codes that are out of stock will be produced and those codes have been removed from our catalog. We produced FAR fewer than 500 of each of these, with most only being produced in quantities around 100-150 or so.

2. For the French Line Infantry, our initial production was far fewer than our alottment of 500 of each figure. 500 x 29 figures = 14,500 figures. It would take us a LONG time to produce and sell that many figures from a single release!!! When we do an initial production, we typically only produce about 200-250 of a given figure. Producing all 500 at one time given our costs and the painting quality would both cost us WAY too much (hundreds of thousands) and take WAY too long (6+ months). These aren't your standard toy soldier paint jobs where any painter can do them - only the best painters can work on our figures and thus the available pool of painters is much smaller. For example, one small factory that we use can produce 10,000 "toy soldier" figures per month, but only 1,500 First Legion figures per month. If that factory had produced the French Line infantry and we did 500 of each figure in the production run, we probably still wouldn't have released them yet. :D

3. In the case of the French Line Infantry, we did 29 different figures. With a release this large in terms of number of codes, our initial production run was even smaller than normal. Because of the amount of variety we provide with our releases, customers buy fewer multiples. As such, we sell fewer of each individual code. Even with our new production run coming up we'll still have produced far fewer than the 500 we alotted ourselves. I'd love to say that we already produced all 500 and that they all sold out and now we're just being sneaky and producing more, but that simply isn't the case. If it were, I would be sitting on a beach somewhere, not chatting on this forum answering such questions.

4. Further, if we had produced and sold 500 of each already, it would most definitely be in our best interest to produce DIFFERENT figures that are NEW and that are priced higher. We are only producing the French Line Infantry again because so many customers didn't get a chance to buy them because the initial run was so small and we have a lot of new customers who joined us after the figures were out of stock already. So we're only producing more of them as a service to our customers - believe me, we'd much rather produce new figures.

5. As a by and large direct sales company, we hold the overwhelming amount of our inventory. As such, it doesn't make sense to produce all 500 figures when we aren't passing off the majority of them to dealers to hold.

6. I seldom see our figures on ebay (of course I seldom check either). Ebay is for you all to consider, not for us to worry about.

7. We don't have that many retired figures yet, so really the after market value of our figures is difficult to guage. I have seen one retired figure (NAP0002) being sold on ebay and it was sold at a "Buy it now" style auction for $10 or $15 above retail. It sold in less than 24 hours. For this particular figure, I know of a whole bunch of our customers who don't have it and want it. As another example, when we did our year end inventory, I found 1 x NAP0004 in our warehouse. This figure was retired, but since we had one, I put it back in the catalog and made it available. It sold in less than 24 hours. I would not be suprised for the Bavarians to be worth quite a bit in a few years time because in the end they'll probably be the most rare figures we'll ever produce.

8. The typical First Legion customer doesn't buy the figures because of what they might be worth after market, they buy the figures because they're beautiful. It's more the mind set of the people who buy Russian figures. I believe this is why you don't see our figures for sale too often. Couple that with the fact that we don't make that many of them, and you see them for sale even less. At least this is my take on this.

In the end, the net result from a collectibility perspective is that our figures, particularly the earliest ones, will prove to be far MORE RARE than what we state on our website. The only exclusion to this are the Special Collectors Sets where we do produce all sets in one run. We will never produce more figures than our alottments and in most cases, fewer figures than that will be produced. It's bad business to go back and produce old figures again as the production costs are the same, but you don't get that huge initial wave of demand that we as MFR's count on to recover costs. This is one of the reasons we've left the French Line Infantry out of stock for so long - to help build the demand up for when we do invest a ton more money in restocking them.

Anyway, this is really all i have to say about this. And I'm really only responding because a lack of a response might lead some of you to believe that we're producing more figures than we say we will - an implication that I frankly didn't really appreciate even though the basic premise of the question was certainly fair enough. A little common sense would easily show that we'd never go back and produce more than our alottment of a $35 figure when our current figures are $45-$50 and a great many of our customers already have the existing figures. Demand and sales will always be greater on an entirely new release while the costs are the same.

One final note I will make to this, and I do realize that on some level this is my own fault, is that I don't appreciate being "demanded" to respond to anything and everything anyone wants to ask on a Public Forum such as this. If the expectation level is that I will respond to every question posed on this forum, then I'm going to back off and not participate so much. If you absolutely want an answer to a question, email me or pick up the phone. I will always respond to that type of communication. I participate here to engage with collectors and because I enjoy it. However, this forum is not the First Legion hotline and you all need to recalibrate expectation levels in this regard.

Regards,

Matt
First Legion Ltd
 
Thank you, Matt, for the clarification.

PS: Wolfgang sends his regards. :D
 
I have never seen First Legion for sale on e-bay.....and hope it remains a rare occurence.....I make the great majority of my purchases from manufacturers and for the most part ignore evil-bay and the price manipulation that usually occurs there.....
 
There have been quite a few First Legion Napoleonics on Ebay. I haven't seen any of the other two series. Most of these have been from the UK and have gone above retail. The volumes have been relatively small consistent with the smaller release size. Of course not that many people want to get rid of theirs but if you do, let me know.;) I have had several great transactions for FL Napoleonic figures with members here.:cool:

Hi Bill,
I to have picked up quite a bit of First Legion to help fill the ranks from the Classified section here last year . Picked up the French Artillery piece, about 8 or 10 French line , a hand full of Westphalian's also some Wurttemberger Jaegers , and The Prince of Orange , and Gen Colbert :):) I could not be Happier with the Figures and with the transactions all the gentlemen I bought from were a pleasure to deal with .. About FL on ebay i am always looking i did watch that group of British troops awhile back can't remember what they went for but remember talking about it on a thread when it was going on. I just know they went for a lot more then it would have cost me to buy direct from Mr George or the FL website ( since I live in the States ). I just don't think they are well know yet . I found out about them by accident I was at a show going to buy some items produced from another company when I saw the Bavarian's I ask who was making them, I had never heard of First Legion at that point and I have been hooked ever since :eek:. I pick up a lot of things at Gettysburg at the antique mall there . I think they would do very well there , I just don't think the average person is exposed to them most people don't go to shows or buy toy soldier publications. . All the best. Gebhard
 
For Matt /Bill

Matt I personally dont believe my polite request " Could Matt please respond" could in anyway be considered demanding " especially having previously posted basically the same question addressed to all users of this forum without any response. It seems on reflection that the question could only have been answered by your good self. I regret not directing my concerns to you in person. However this is a toy soldier forum and a collector should be able to air his or her views as they see fit, it is not moderated by Manufacturers and in fairness I believe this forum has only ever shown FL in a good light as is only fair given the quality of the work produced.

I was given the impression at the toy soldier show in London that the French Infantry were sold out end of story and was therefore surprised further units were being produced. Your explanation more than clears up any confusion.

My point which you may have missed is that by definition Limited Edition means that a limited number of sculptures or prints of a sculptor or artists work are produced under his direct supervision or with his approval and are numbered and/ or signed as number X of 500 or number XX of 1000 of a production run etc, usually therafter the original scult would be destroyed or locked away or put out of use perhaps retained by the artist.

I would expect that the reason a manufacturer would not wish to number product is that it may give away sales information to competitors but that said units in a limited run would not have to be released sequentially.

It would in my humble opinion as a customer and collector only serve to add value to a collection and perhaps increase demand for those limited edition items on sale if they were numbered in such a way.

I sort of struggle with the concept of something being portrayed as Limited edition if it is not a numbered item from a limited edition production and the abscence of such numbering could be in breach of some countries trading standards or certainly the spirit of what is meant by the classification of "Limited Edition"

I wish to make it very clear that IMO Matt and FL are a very honourable company, and if they say that only a certain number will be produced that is good enough for me.

The figures are very good and despite the fact that they are increasing in price especially here in the UK with a weak pound, import taxes and Value Added Tax of 17.5% factored in they remain good value given the quality.

My personal view which is in now way an attack on FL or MP is that I would be happier if figures were numbered to reflect their exclusivity.
 
Panda,

I can only speak for myself, but I could care less weather the figures come with numbers. It sounds to me just another thing adding to the production costs which would add nothing to the quality of the figures.

The main reason I was slow to start collecting First Legion in the beginning was my fear that the production runs were so low. If I am going to spend a lot of money building up a unit in miniature; I don’t want to hear that the figures were sold out before I have been able to buy all I wanted. Since I am not wealthy I use the “Ants can build Mountains theory”. I buy a little bit each month, the maximum I can afford that month. Over a period of time I was able to buy over one hundred French Infantry figures. I wasn’t finished when the figures started going out of stock, just what I had feared. I was very happy to hear that the first run of the figures wasn’t the full allotment for each so First Legion would be re-stocking. Thank you Matt!!

Britains is making its Napoleonic French Lancers a limited edition and on that forum thread I am reading they are hard to found. So I won’t be trying to build a French cavalry charge using those figures. Great for the few people who found some, they may have a figure that becomes more valuable, but not good for the guys wanting to build a diorama.

As First Legion continues to grow in popularity the limited runs of 500 or so may become a problem. As of now my main problem is not being able to buy everything I want because there are so many super figures to choose from.

King’s Man
 
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Well Panda since you included me in your reply let me give you my reaction to your last thoughts on this.

FWIW, I also thought your initial request for "assurances" followed by the observation that FL had not replied to your previous post on the subject was a bit challenging. No manufacturer hangs around this forum waiting to reply to every customer question nor should they. Ironically, Matt is probably one of the most accessible but I humbly suggest that we appreciate what we get; not use it to raise our expectations of a response here to all our collection concerns, however well intended or rational. As he notes, we have FL email and telephone contact information for those and I have found him extremely responsive to specific product related questions.

I do seem to recall your previous limited edition post and personally I have the same reaction now that I had then. Numbering is a nice idea that undoubtedly may increase value but it is not an actual requirement for the term. Actually I have seen numbering used more often in the art world but there the numbers are generally much lower than 500. I can say that I have bought many limited edition items that were not numbered and their exclusivity was no less genuine or appreciated for that. Some of my previous cars and a number of coins and stamps come first to mind and of course my horses are not numbered either though all are very limited editions.:D

Numbering boxes would mean nothing to me since boxes are not as likely to survive as the figures themselves and if numbering the figures increases their current cost, I am frankly against it. I buy these figures because I think they are the best I can find for my interest at a cost that I can accept. Others have higher thresholds and certainly some have expressed lower ones. I also buy them for my current enjoyment so I really look to Ebay or other secondary sources as only the chance to buy more at a bargain if I can. If eventually they are worth more, great; perhaps it will fund a nice vacation for my wife when I check out.;) If not, well then it as a consumable purchase that gave me great pleasure for a very good duration; something that would rate highly on the Bentham scale.:D

I am glad this cleared up the mis-impression about the French Line you got from the London show. It has been discussed here before but certainly there are far too many threads for us to see them all. I was personally thrilled by the news about this some time back since I have many more duplicates I want to add from that line.

I do appreciate your desire to get the most you can for your dollars; I certainly try to do that as I can. When it comes to these, I think we are doing pretty well but I must confess I am very thankful we do not (yet) have the additional cost pressure caused by your country's tax policies.
 
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