French Uniform Alteration of La Sarre - What is Needed? HELP!!! (3 Viewers)

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Fraxinus

Master Sergeant
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Nov 4, 2007
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1,257
Good Morning,

Especailly as it regards Obee and The Baron, I could use some help here.

I am thinking of having a few of the La Sarre marching figures modified to represent sergeants, corporals and lance corporals. I believe that only paint would be required (just gold and a yellow maybe for the corporals and lance corporals),

From Kronoskaf Page: Under French Armies, Grenadiers Royaux de Modène: http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Grenadiers_Royaux_de_Modène

The NCO distinctions were carried on the cuffs of the uniform. The La Sarre was gilded (gold) edge on hat, so assume that this will carry to the cuffs, gold and not silver.

NCOs wore uniforms similar to those of the privates with the following distinctions:

sergeants: cuffs edged in silver or ornamented with 3 agréments; My take for La Sarre : Essentially gold edging around the top of the cuff, not the button holes on the cuffs.
corporals: cuffs edged in white and ornamented with 3 white frogs; My take for La Sarre : Essentially yellow edging around the cuff button holes.
ansepessades (lance corporals): cuffs edged in white; My take for La Sarre (yellow): very confused; need help, thinking yellow around top of cuff, but this is so close to sergeant that it seems implausible.


Sergeants were armed with a spontoon. No problem with not having spontoons.

French Company: Montcalm's Regular Regiments (1757-1759)

1 Captain
1 Lieutenant
2 Sergeants
3 Corporals
3 Lance Corporals (ansepessades')
41 Privates
1 Drummer

Any help appreciated particularly with the lance corporals
 
Last edited:
Hi, Ken, I got your PM with this question. My main reference, apart from the Seven Years' War project, which you've already checked, is the Osprey Men-at-Arms issues on Louis XV's army. Book 2 covers the infantry (native French, that is). Checking that reference, I think you've got the right idea.

Sergeants had gold lace, generally, but corporals and lance corporals had woolen lace. In 1747, the specification was that corporals would have the cuff buttonholes laced, but lance corporals would have just the cuff laced. So I agree, I would paint it yellow.

I'm not sure why you referenced the Grenadiers Royaux de Modene, though, unless you were going to repaint the La Sarre figures to that regiment. Otherwise, here is the page for La Sarre: http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=La_Sarre_Infanterie

Hope that helps, prosit!
Brad
 
Thanks Guys,

I referenced the Grenadiers Royaux de Modene because that page includes information on how sergeants, corporal and lance corporal uniforms differ, similar information is lacking on the La Sarre page itself.

http://vial.jean.free.fr/new_npi/archives/archiv.htm ----- not having luck with this link yet, will not connect. But I will work on it more.
 
Yeah, Jean Vial's site, Nec Pluribus Impar, fails to load when I try it, too. The connection times out. He's a member of the Seven Years' War group, so I'm going to see if I can contact him about it.

Prost!
Brad
 
Fraxinus said:
Good Morning,

Especailly as it regards Obee and The Baron, I could use some help here.

I am thinking of having a few of the La Sarre marching figures modified to represent sergeants, corporals and lance corporals. I believe that only paint would be required (just gold and a yellow maybe for the corporals and lance corporals),

From Kronoskaf Page: Under French Armies, Grenadiers Royaux de Modène: http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Grenadiers_Royaux_de_Modène

The NCO distinctions were carried on the cuffs of the uniform. The La Sarre was gilded (gold) edge on hat, so assume that this will carry to the cuffs, gold and not silver.

NCOs wore uniforms similar to those of the privates with the following distinctions:

sergeants: cuffs edged in silver or ornamented with 3 agréments; My take for La Sarre : Essentially gold edging around the top of the cuff, not the button holes on the cuffs.
corporals: cuffs edged in white and ornamented with 3 white frogs; My take for La Sarre : Essentially yellow edging around the cuff button holes.
ansepessades (lance corporals): cuffs edged in white; My take for La Sarre (yellow): very confused; need help, thinking yellow around top of cuff, but this is so close to sergeant that it seems implausible.


Sergeants were armed with a spontoon. No problem with not having spontoons.

French Company: Montcalm's Regular Regiments (1757-1759)

1 Captain
1 Lieutenant
2 Sergeants
3 Corporals
3 Lance Corporals (ansepessades')
41 Privates
1 Drummer

Any help appreciated particularly with the lance corporals
Click to expand...

Hi Fraxinus,

I painted these quite some time ago, in yellow, with the Osprey mentioned previously as a guide.

Bests,
Chris
 

Attachments

  • LaSarre_NCOs.jpg
    LaSarre_NCOs.jpg
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Chris,

Which Osprey book are you referencing? And nice job on the painting!!! I really like how the sergeants came out.

Thanks
 
Fraxinus said:
Chris,

Which Osprey book are you referencing? And nice job on the painting!!! I really like how the sergeants came out.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I remember seeing something like this in the Osprey, Men-at-Arms book, "Montcalm's Army". It may also be in one of the "Armies of Louis XV" books, also in the Men-at-Arms series. I hope this is of help to you, Fraxinus.......
 
Hatman said:
I remember seeing something like this in the Osprey, Men-at-Arms book, "Montcalm's Army". It may also be in one of the "Armies of Louis XV" books, also in the Men-at-Arms series. I hope this is of help to you, Fraxinus.......
Click to expand...

Hey,

Sorry for the delayed reply. It was indeed "Montcalm's Army" and here are some relevant images. This is a "must-have" Osprey : )

Bests,
Chris

01_Osprey_Cover.jpg02_Cuffs.jpg03_LaSarre.jpg
 
Thanks, so much. Doh, me, yes, this volume is already in the library.

Think we have the sergeants and corporals fully resolved, but any guidance on the lance corporals would be appreciated. This is the rank that is giving me the most trouble (ansepessades), as it appears those makkings to be close to that of a sergeant.

NCOs wore uniforms similar to those of the privates with the following distinctions:

sergeants: cuffs edged in silver or ornamented with 3 agréments; My take for La Sarre : Essentially gold edging around the top of the cuff, not the button holes on the cuffs.
corporals: cuffs edged in white and ornamented with 3 white frogs; My take for La Sarre : Essentially yellow edging around the cuff button holes.
ansepessades (lance corporals): cuffs edged in white; My take for La Sarre (yellow): very confused; need help, thinking yellow around top of cuff, but this is so close to sergeant that it seems implausible.
 
Fraxinus said:
Thanks, so much. Doh, me, yes, this volume is already in the library.

Think we have the sergeants and corporals fully resolved, but any guidance on the lance corporals would be appreciated. This is the rank that is giving me the most trouble (ansepessades), as it appears those makkings to be close to that of a sergeant.

NCOs wore uniforms similar to those of the privates with the following distinctions:

sergeants: cuffs edged in silver or ornamented with 3 agréments; My take for La Sarre : Essentially gold edging around the top of the cuff, not the button holes on the cuffs.
corporals: cuffs edged in white and ornamented with 3 white frogs; My take for La Sarre : Essentially yellow edging around the cuff button holes.
ansepessades (lance corporals): cuffs edged in white; My take for La Sarre (yellow): very confused; need help, thinking yellow around top of cuff, but this is so close to sergeant that it seems implausible.
Click to expand...

As I mentioned in my post above, Osprey's "Louis XV's Army" describes the lance corporal's lace as the same as the sergeant's, but made of wool, not gold. It's not really implausible. It makes sense that the lance corporal would have the band of lace around the cuff's edge, to distinguish him from the next non-commissioned rank below. And since sergeants, the next rank up, had gold, it makes sense that it was woolen lace instead. It would be easy to spot the two and tell them apart.

Prost!
Brad
 
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To our sidebar here, about accessing Jean-Louis Vial's site...

I asked in our Project Seven Years' War group, of which Jean-Louis is a member, whether anyone else's connection attempts time out. Jean-Louis hasn't responded yet himself, but the rest of the group confirmed the URL, and people in regions as far apart as the Middle East and Canada are able to access the site. I still get connection timeouts, consistently, regardless of browser, and both from my work connection, which is behind a firewall with a web filter, as well as from my home connection, which has no firewall of its own but is behind the firewalls and filters of my ISP. I'm going to have to contact them to see if they can see anything.

This is a relatively recent development; as far as I can remember, I last accessed the site early last year.

Anyone else in the US, if you don't mind, please try accessing http://vial.jean.free.fr/new_npi/ and let us know your results.

Prost!
Brad
 
To Brad,

Jean Louis Vial's link on June 18th, Delaware, USA = "took too long to respond" Google Chrome

Thanks for the additional info on the uniforms. Still searching for a tad info more on the lance corporals.
 
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