Has anyone gotten there CS TOBRUK Sets...... (1 Viewer)

[johngambale]

Hello Guys! Has Anyone Received their NEW CS TOBRUK Sets Yet? and , If so,How do you like these Sets? Compared to King and Country DAK Sets?

 

[sceic2]

I got the Panzer I from George last Friday and it is a real sweet gem of a model. The detailing is extraordinary. It is quite heavy and it comes very well packaged. When I place it next to the custom AK K&C Panzer I that Alex did for Treefrog, the CS version is larger and more intricately detailed. I suppose an argument could be made as to which model is what scale, but I like them both and I am pleased that I have both.

 

[johngambale]

Hello Sceic2! I wanted to Mentioned, that I Heard from a few Guys, that the CS Tobruk Set Stuff is Well Made ,Beefy, and Beautiful! And the Motorcycle and Kettenkrad is a little Larger than K & C? I don't knock Andys' Sets, but I always looking forward to a Little larger WW2 Sets? I'm asking CS to make MUCH More DAK for 2008, and possible, Next Year AUSTRALIANS for N.Africa Future Sets!

 

[damian]

Cut to the chase. Has anyone got the DAK 88 gun yet? It looks good but it would be nice to get some conformation from collectors who have seen it in the metal
Regards
Damian

 

[Alexdakar]

I have the 88mm gun and I its great. I think its a perfect size for K&C which I might buy another and repaint it to German grey.

 

[sceic2]

Some pictures of the K&C versions and CS.

 

[maddadicus]

I guess the size difference begs the question...Which is 1/30 scale?...Maybe Steve C. can give us what the dimensions for a 1/30 scale version of this model ought be and then compare to the actual inches of these 2 vehicles...Michael

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

We've taken extensive measurements and done scale ratios. We found data on the internet and in various publications to discern that the PzK I was 5.7 meters in height. In Andy's K&C 60mm world in 1/30th scale ( this is also debatable as K&C truly seems closer to 1/29th ) Our vehicle should stand at just over 2.55 inches in height if 5.7 meters is true, which it does.

Since Andy's vehicles are often undersized for the figures we bumped up the scale to a robust 60mm to grow our vehicle closer to a true size relative to a 5' 8" soldier of the period in 60mm. At the same time we attempted to make sure our vehicles fit K&C figures as that is now the undeniable standard for WWII collectable metal figurines.

Anyhow hope that helps.

cheers,

Brian

 

[Steven Chong]

...Which is 1/30 scale?...Maybe Steve C. can give us what the dimensions for a 1/30 scale version of this model ought be and then compare to the actual inches of these 2 vehicles...Michael

... We found data on the internet and in various publications to discern that the PzK I was 5.7 meters in height. In Andy's K&C 60mm world in 1/30th scale ( this is also debatable as K&C truly seems closer to 1/29th ) Our vehicle should stand at just over 2.55 inches in height if 5.7 meters is true, which it does.

First, I think we are comparing two different vehicles. The Collector's Showcase vehicle appears to be the Panzerkampfwagen I Ausf A since it has only four road wheels while the K&C version is the Panzerkampfwagen I Ausf B with five road wheels and an extra return roller. The Ausf B is about 1'4" longer than the Ausf A but the other dimensions are very close.

All my references have the height of both the Pzkw I Ausf A and Ausf B as approximately 5'7.7" so I think Brian meant to say the Pzk I was 5'7" in height. Using the most repeated measurements in my references, the Ausf A should be W: 6'8", L: 13'2", and H: 5'7.7" and Ausf B should be W: 6'9", L: 14'6", and H: 5'7.7".

Converting these measurements to inches:
Ausf A: W: 80", L: 158", and H: 67.7"
Ausf B: W: 81", L: 174", and H: 67.7"

Now, 1/30 scale is the above measurements in inches divided by 30, so this is what the two models should be for 1/30 scale:

Ausf A (CS): W: 2.6667", L: 5.2667" and H: 2.2567"
Ausf B (K&C): W: 2.7000", L: 5.8000" and H: 2.2567"

Since Brian states the Collector's Showcase tank is just over 2.55 inches, it appears to be about .3 inches too high for 1/30 scale -- the scale is actually closer to 1/26.6. Using the actual height of 5'7" makes the scale of the CS tank about 1/26.3. I do not have the Collector's Showcase Panzerkampfwagen I and my K&C version is temporarily packed away. Can anyone provide the measurements of these two models?

In addition, vehicles get larger as the scale goes from 1/30 to 1/29 and lower. Since the K&C vehicle is smaller, it cannot be 1/29 scale if the Collector's Showcase tank is suppposed to be 1/30 scale.

 

[ucla1967]

I was fortunate enough to get an invitation last Saturday to see Jacques Littlefield's private AFV collection in the San Jose area. He had an operational Panzer Kampfwagen I in his collection. I was especially struck by how small it was; I am 5' 9" and could easily see over the top of the turret. It is really a tankett more like an Italian CV33 than anything else. It kind of reminded me of my first new car---a 1968 VW Beetle. Most American SUVs are significantly larger in appearance than the Panzer I and some weigh more than its 4.5 tons.

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

Steven let the cat out of the bag: here at The Collectors Showcase our little " secret " is that we determined that k & C figures are truly closer to a 1/29th scale. The vehicles being a 1/30th or 1/32nd in some cases. We made a group decision to grow the vehicles to a more realistic size relative to the figures: hence the PzK I. And at the same time matching the K&C figure scale to a 1/30th or 1/32nd. So there you have it

best regards,

Brian

 

[johngambale]

Your Size in Comparism with k & C is WONDERFUL! Andy's Sculpture's, are Producing SMALLER Vehicle's and Some of the Figure's also, are Smaller! Keep up the GREAT Production BRIAN! I can't wait to Buy your 'NEW' MARDER III, AND THE New SDKFZ-222 Armored Car, and FLAK GUN! Hopefully maybe you could Make, a ' SDKFZ'-232, /W/ Radio Antennae and Front Grille Guard; and also, A WESPE-Self-Propelled SDKFZ-124! Thankyou, BRIAN, for these GREAT Sets! Keep on this WW2 Production!Don't Forget TOBRUK II, and EL ALAMEIN, possible future Sets, for 2008!

 

[damian]

I was fortunate enough to get an invitation last Saturday to see Jacques Littlefield's private AFV collection in the San Jose area. He had an operational Panzer Kampfwagen I in his collection. I was especially struck by how small it was; I am 5' 9" and could easily see over the top of the turret. It is really a tankett more like an Italian CV33 than anything else. It kind of reminded me of my first new car---a 1968 VW Beetle. Most American SUVs are significantly larger in appearance than the Panzer I and some weigh more than its 4.5 tons.

Just like many of our modern carsa and SUV's we driive are bigger and heavier than some WWII vehicles so I would feel the average westerner is bigger and heavier than his grandfather was in WWII. Sad but unfortunatley true. Perhaps we shouldbear that in mind whne talking about the morphology and scale of toy soldiers. The greatest generation were generally wiry. The curret genration alas is not.
Regards
Damian

 

[ucla1967]

I have three photographs of the Littlefield Panzerkampfwagen I. One is a close-up, another is beside a WWI American M-1917 copy of the two-man French Renault RT-17, and the third is with the WW II British Vickers Mark V. BTW, I am very cognizant of the size differences in the WWII generation versus our current over-fed state. My only point on the PZ 1 size is that it is a very small vehicle by any standard. Some of the models make the PZ 1 appear more formidable than it actually is in person.

 

[jazzeum]

Thanks for the photos Mike. Can you believe someone going into battle in something that small. I would have been scared to death.

 

[ucla1967]

Thanks for the photos Mike. Can you believe someone going into battle in something that small. I would have been scared to death.

As you probably know, the PZ 1 was a training tank armed with two 7.92 mm machine guns and was never indended to be used in combat. The Germans sent about 120 of them to the Nationalists during the Spanish Civil War where they were mauled by the Rebuplican's Soviet T-26 which was armed with a 45 mm main gun. Because of production delays on the German main battle tanks, the PZ III and PZ IV, the Wermacht was forced to use large numbers of the PZ I in both Poland and France. They were so out classed by the British and French tanks they faced that they were never used as frontline combat vehicles again. The PZ 1 had only 1/2 inch armor protection which could only stop small arms projectiles and shell splinters. It must have been terrifying to have been a crew man in a PZ 1 given its limitations.