HBO Inside Sports last night......... (2 Viewers)

Warrior

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Ran a story about the new Yankee, Met, Giant and Jet stadiums all going up in New York. The PSL for some of the seats at Giants stadium is 20k, ie, 20 large, ie, 20 GRAND just to have the right to buy the seats, plus the cost of the seats.

They also interviewed an older gentleman who has Yankee season tickets, has had them for 35 years. He has four seats and got a letter from the Yankees informing him that his seats in roughly the same area that they are in now (about ten rows behind the Yankee dugout) will be available to him in the new stadium if he wants them, PLUS, they will throw in all the food and beverages he can eat/drink, AND, free parking. He has four seats, such a deal.

Oh yeah, the cost for the four seats; 2500.00..................PER GAME...........by four............that's 10,000.00 PER GAME...........times 81 home games ..............season tickets will be 81 large/k/grand...................

What an absolute disgrace.
 
And I bet like every other billionaire owned ball park for millionaire players, there are lots of public funds to build them too. SI just had an article about the most expense cities to be a fan in and NY ranked right up there with Miami (most expensive city to be a fan).

I go to the see the Twins and when I took two of my grandsons (ages 8 and 11) to see the Indians a couple of weeks ago, it cost me $150 for 3 seats 34 rows back behind the visitors dugout. add in a couple of dogs and sodas and a couple of hats and we're talkin $250. And if I use 81 home games that's $16,200 for so so seats for a sometimes contendor.

The Twins and the Vikings talked the city of Minneapolis into building the metrodome about 25 years ago. The excuse they used to get out of Metropolitian Stadium was "weather's bad, we need indoors or we leave town." Now the deal for them is "weather's good, we need outdoors or we leave town."

And the University of MN is building a new football only field that is costing just as much as the Vikings, so that's three brand new outdoor stadiums to replace one indoor and all three have hundred's of millions in public funds for their construction.

I say, call their bluff and see if anybody wants a baseball or football team?
 
Don't forget the taxpayers who pick up tens of millions $'s to build the stadiums. Baseball is a disgrace on many levels. Greed has destroyed the game. Remember when you had two divisions in the NL and AL and could win 90+ games and not even go to the playoffs - before ESPN needed more games to televise? Atlanta was in the NL West for some reason. Those were the good old days. I will go to a game once a decade and eat my $15 hot dog, but that's it.
 
As a NY fan, I can't speak to the Mets financing (although I should know) but the new Yankee stadium and Giants stadium are completely self financed. This story has been around for awhile and there was an article in today's Times about it. It's a complete disgrace in my view. But you know what the Giants say? If you don't want to pay for the PSL, we have a 13,000 person waiting list. I'll try to find the article and post it. Regarding the Jets, they're exempting approximately 27,000 seats from the PSL but just throwing it on the backs of the other ticket holders.
 
It is staggering that as a fan you have to pay a PSL just for the priviledge of buying a seat; they interviewed the Giants owner on the show and the smirk on his face during the entire interview was priceless.

And some complain OUR hobby is expensive...........
 
In my view, this should be regulated by the SEC. Basically, all they're doing is sellling securities and they've told fans, you can buy and sell the PSLs. If that isn't a security, I don't know what is.

When I was a kid, one of my dreams was (and still is) to be able to go to all the Mets games when I retired. With the new prices, that's one dream you can kiss goodbye.

Here is the article in yesterday's NY Times.

****

No American market has witnessed anything like it: two baseball teams and two football teams will open three new stadiums within 17 months and 20 miles of one another, with everything set to be in place by the fall of 2010.

The teams are confident market research supports the increases, but season-ticket holders say the price they are being asked to pay in the new stadiums — the Mets’ $800 million Citi Field, the $1.3 billion Yankee Stadium and the $1.6 billion (and climbing) Jets-Giants stadium — is turning them into something other than fans. Instead, interviews with two dozen fans indicated, they are starting to feel like unwitting bankers.

“You’re asking me for money and giving me nothing in return,” said Steve Kern, a construction executive from Boonton Township, N.J., who owns two Jets season tickets. “I won’t be sharing in the revenues or get any perks.”

Kern, who organized a small protest outside the Jets-Giants exhibition game Saturday, said he objected to the sale of personal seat licenses, the one-time fees that simply give fans the right to buy season tickets at the new stadium the Jets and Giants will share.

The Giants have said they will charge from $1,000 to $20,000 a seat for their personal seat licenses; once fans buy the seat licenses, they will still have to pay from $85 to $700 a ticket. The Jets are expected to unveil their ticket plan Tuesday.

“Here I am, buying a stadium for John Mara,” said Hank Honig, an accountant from Middletown, N.J., who owns eight Giants season tickets, referring to the team’s co-owner. “I’d love to see him issue a registration statement like a stock offering that would disclose information we don’t know. This is a greedy ploy with the only benefits going to them.”

Mara, who has been dealing with an outpouring of complaints that he no doubt anticipated, responded, “They have ownership of their seats and can transfer it.”

Thomas Malmud, a real estate lawyer who has season tickets to the Jets, the Mets and the Yankees, said that paying for seat licenses made him feel as if he is helping the Jets’ owner, Woody Johnson, pay the team’s half-share of the new stadium. He seemed less upset with the Mets.

“The Jets and Giants want me to be an equity partner without any upside,” he said. “But with the Mets, the price has some relationship to the market for sporting tickets.”

His Mets seats will jump from about $88 a game to $175. “It’s a huge increase, but not unconscionable,” he said.

Fans are now calculating how expensive it will be for many of them to attend games at the new stadiums.

Tickets for the best seats at the 85-year-old Yankee Stadium, which sold for $1,000 a seat this season, will jump at the new ballpark to $2,500; in other areas of the stadium, they will range from $135 to $500 for season tickets. Prices for single-game tickets, which ranged from $14 to $400 this season, will be released later.

The best seats at Citi Field, which cost $276 at Shea Stadium this season, will soar to $495, with other season tickets ranging from $125 to $225 a game. Single-game tickets this season ranged from $5 to $117. (Citi Field’s capacity of about 42,500 compares with 57,333 at Shea.) Neither team has made known all of its prices. Both teams also say broad swaths of more modestly priced tickets will be available.

Typically, all four teams sell a majority of seats as season tickets.

The personal seat licenses will allow the Giants to collect an estimated $185 million, after taxes, which will help pay for their stadium bonds. Mara conceded that fans were helping to finance a stadium whose costs had more than doubled from what he called an initial, and sketchy, $750 million estimate.

“It’s impossible to build a stadium of this magnitude without public funding unless you do something significant with ticket prices or P.S.L.’s,” he said.

Dave Howard, the Mets’ executive vice president for business, said that Citi Field’s pricing was designed to make those who sit closest to the field pay the most so that prices can be kept reasonable elsewhere. “The market indicates that a sector of our fan base is willing to pay a premium price for a premium location,” he said.

The shift to Citi Field unsettles fans like Richard Mermelstein, a lawyer from Scarsdale, N.Y. Since buying two season tickets the day the Mets acquired Gary Carter in 1984, he has upgraded several times to loge seats behind home plate. His bill — $9,280 in 2006, $10,584 in 2007 and $13,060 this season — would spike to $24,300, or $150 a seat, next season if he moves to the seats designated as comparable to his Shea seats.

“Imagine how you’d feel if $300 goes to waste when they’re out of it in September,” he said.

The Mets have so far not agreed to let him downgrade to less expensive seats and he fears that if he goes on a waiting list, he may lose out entirely in relocating to Citi Field.

Howard said that some downgrade requests are easier to fulfill than others, as fans with seats at Shea that are comparable to the less-expensive ones sought by Mermelstein are served first. He also said that partial season-ticket plans might not survive.

“We’ve told our customers that if they want priority seating, they should have a full-season plan,” Howard said.

Season-ticket holders of the four teams said they were contemplating various strategies to cope.

Some, like Mermelstein, want to downgrade — or else drop their tickets.

Some, like Honig, want to flip some of their seat licenses for a profit — after holding them for the required minimum of one year — to pay for the remaining ones.

Some are seeking partners to shoulder the costs.

One public-relations executive in Manhattan, whose company did not permit him to speak publicly, was faced with a $120,000 bill for his six Giants seat licenses. He sold four of them to a major financial services executive for $30,000 each, a 50 percent markup. He retained two licenses, and has an option to buy back one of his partner’s licenses at market value.

Others, already sophisticated about reselling tickets on sites like stubhub.com, will try to recoup even more money by reselling tickets to attractive games.

Richie Brown of Manhattan, a uniform salesman, holds four fourth-row seats on the first-base side at Yankee Stadium that are jumping to $650 apiece from $220.

“It’s going to cost $2,600 to sit there on a rainy day in April to watch Kansas City,” he said. “You sit there saying, maybe at $220, you have a chance of selling them to somebody, but try selling four tickets at $650 each.”

Mark S. Rosentraub, a professor of urban affairs at Cleveland State University and an expert in sports finances, said that new-stadium economics were forcing fans to become smart, well-organized ticket brokers.

“You’ll have to put together packages where you sell your Royals tickets at a loss but hope you make it back on your Red Sox tickets,” he said. “If you’re used to seeing the Red Sox nine times, maybe now it’ll be four or five times.”

He said the Yankees, the Mets, the Giants and the Jets would not be setting their seat license and ticket prices so high without having studied data about the market from sources like StubHub. The Giants’ Mara offered a blunt lesson in market-driven economics on WFAN radio this month. “We have 130,000 people on our waiting list,” he said. “We could charge anything and still fill the stadium.”

(continued in next post).
 
One point an analyst brought up on the show was many of the football fans are buying the seats, going to the games they really want to see and selling the rest of the seats via Stub Hub, thus the reason for the PSL and the outrageous prices, fans are profiting so why not the owners.

If you try that with Patriot season tickets and some clown buys your seats and acts up at the game, you lose your tickets, end of story......
 
Continued from my prior post:

The Nyack Rotary Club, with four Giants season tickets bequeathed to it by a member, faces an unusual problem. It raffles off the tickets to raise funds for scholarships and local elementary school literacy programs. Now, faced with paying seat licenses of $20,000 each, Christopher Haera, a former club president, said, “It seems odd to take out a loan to do a fund-raiser, and you don’t want to do a fund-raiser to do a fund-raiser."

Few fans have a broader view of season tickets than Aldo Zu-ppichini, who spends six figures annually to see the Yankees, the Giants, the Jets, the Knicks and the Rangers. He is giving up his football tickets (“I’ve got a 65-inch flat screen”) and has traded down to $135 seats in the Terrace Suite (“a fancy name for the upper deck”) at the new Yankee Stadium rather than pay $650 a game to watch Derek Jeter.

Zuppichini, a resident of Fort Lee, N.J., who is the vice president for sales for Pretzel Crisps, reluctantly signed a 10-year contract for the $135 seats, with built-in annual ticket price increases of 4 percent a year.

“You can’t be any more die-hard then me,” he said, “but when the Giants’ P.S.L. letter came in, I was so burned, I read half of it and threw it away.”

Feeling more betrayed is Irwin Shivek, of Boynton Beach, Fla. He bought his first two Giants season tickets back in 1946, doing so “over the counter” from Jack Mara, John’s uncle, at the team’s old business offices on 42nd Street in Manhattan.

In time, Shivek added two more season tickets and ended up in one of the Giants Stadium sections that make up the Coach’s Club at the new stadium, where seat licenses cost $20,000 and game tickets go for $700 each. The Giants say they are priced at that level because of their location behind the Giants’ bench, and because they provide access to a club that will provide free food and beverages and the ability to watch post-game interviews.

In 1989, Shivek moved from Secaucus, N.J., to Florida, and gave his tickets to his daughters, Susan and Lynn (whose middle name is Mara, a show of the family’s allegiance to the Giants). Susan and her husband will pay the new bill — $40,000 for two licenses and $14,000 for their season tickets, starting in 2010. But Lynn cannot.

“If the tickets were still in my name, I’d tear them up,” said Shivek, a former executive at Syms, the clothing chain. “If they couldn’t afford to finance that stadium on their own, they shouldn’t be leaving Giants Stadium.”
 
"The Giants’ Mara offered a blunt lesson in market-driven economics on WFAN radio this month. “We have 130,000 people on our waiting list,” he said. “We could charge anything and still fill the stadium.”

What an arrogant SOB; and to think my team lost the Super Bowl to a team owned by that clown, makes me want to vomit.
 
Nationals Withhold Rent on Ballpark

More than midway through the baseball season, the Washington Nationals' owners have failed to pay $3.5 million in rent for the District's new ballpark, contending that the state-of-the-art stadium is still incomplete.

The team is demanding damages of $100,000 a day, dating from March 1.
D.C. officials said they plan to hire a special lawyer to handle what they expect to be prolonged arbitration over the ballpark, which was built with tax dollars.

"They are playing games there; the fans are paying the money to see the games; and no one I know of has asked for a refund," said D.C. Council Chairman Vincent C. Gray (D). The Nationals "ought to pay the rent for the facility they are using. The city is banking on this revenue. . . . It seems unreasonable at this stage that the team would not fulfill its obligation."

The fight is the latest in a series of disputes that has led to increasing ill will as the city and team seek to reap dividends from the investments they made to bring baseball to Washington. The District paid more than $611 million in public money to build the stadium complex along the Anacostia River, while the family of Bethesda-based developer Theodore N. Lerner spent more than $450 million to buy the franchise from Major League Baseball.
 
"The District paid more than $611 million in public money to build the stadium complex along the Anacostia River, [/B]while the family of Bethesda-based developer Theodore N. Lerner spent more than $450 million to buy the franchise from Major League Baseball."

611 mill to build the stadium and 450 mill for a franchise and they are just about the most pitiful bunch of sadsacks I've ever seen, you could beat them with a reunion team of ex Washington Senators; at least the Yankees are only watching a 200+million dollar investment go down the toilet this year..................
 
George,

The statement by Mr. Mara has nothing to do with the Giants being the champs. You're equating a financial issue with a result on the field.

The fact that there is a huge waiting list is a fact and that gives them enormous leverage, the kind of leverage that any other owner, including Bob kraft. That's just the reality. Whether I like it or not, someone will pay it.
 
I don't have a problem with the price of tickets for sporting events, or the salaries paid to professional athletes, or any other costs. We as consumers can choose not to buy the product, and if an athlete can negotiate the highest pay for his services that the market will bear, well, I reserve that same right for myself, so I won't begrudge it him.

However, I do not agree that any public money should go to building any stadium. Let the team pay for it. I do not believe the cries of poverty that we hear, for example, from baseball team owners, when they want a stadium built, but don't want to pay for it themselves. Any time a franchise has come up for sale, there has always been a group of investors ready to step up and buy it. Even for teams that did not do well in terms of sales, there was always a buyer who thought he could turn the business around. It's just like any other business. One management team does poorly, so a competitor can come in, buy him out, and turn the organization around.

And building a new stadium in a city that is trying to get a franchise does not bring in more entertainment dollars, as is often claimed by a team looking for subsidies. It actually takes money away from existing entertainment businesses, such as local restaurants, bars, etc.

We just got a new stadium here in the Lehigh Valley, for the Phillies' Triple-A affiliate. While it's a nice park, and the team has drawn well, it should not have had one dollar of public money. The owners include the most successful minor league owner in the country, and they had more than enough money to build the park themselves. But they sought the money, and the governor used his influence, and so, we have Coca-Cola Park. The least they could have done is to call it Taxpayer Park, since we helped pay for it.
 
Let me just say, that as a new Yorker, I was outraged a few months ago, when the Yankees asked the city for over 400 million in taxpayer money because of over costs. I'm glad the city told them to stick it. They were attempting to extort money from taxpaying citizens who can barely make ends meet, let alone afford to take their family to a $500.00 afternoon at the ballpark[in the cheap seats]. I'm a Yankee fan, but i am totally fed up. I can't even get a couple of seats to take my son, because corporate America, owns half the ball park. I was able to go to old-timers day with my boy, because one of my co-workers has a partial plan and was unable to attend, so i got to go at face value. As far as Stadiums go, does it amaze you that the Colts can have a brand new football stadium with a retactable roof for 500 million, and over here in NY, the corruption captial of the united states, it takes 1.5 billion and counting for a football stadium without a roof? Why the hell is Yankee Stadium costing 1.3 billion? I so look forward to the day, that I can leave NY and stop feeding the political pigs of this bankrupt state who are slowly but surely destroying any prospects for the younger generation to lead a prosperous life here on Long Island.
 
"As far as Stadiums go, does it amaze you that the Colts can have a brand new football stadium with a retactable roof for 500 million, and over here in NY, the corruption captial of the united states, it takes 1.5 billion and counting for a football stadium without a roof? Why the hell is Yankee Stadium costing 1.3 billion?"

1.5 billion and 1.3 billion for millionaires to build two stadiums for millionaires to play in, and the way things are going, to be watched only by millionaires.

The average fan (you know, the ones who really care, not the wine and cheese crowd with their noses in the air) is the one being forced out.

I used to have season tickets for the Patriots from the mid 80's to the early 90's, then we gave them up. That old stadium was a dump, but man was it loud, you were pratically on top of the players. Have been to four games at the new place and you can hear crickets chirping, all the so and so's around us with their golf claps and chatting about polo, yahting, the stock market, whatever, most of them weren't even watching the game.

Really sad, getting to the point where a dad and his son can't even go to a ball game, like you said, 500.00 to go see the Royals in April; no thanks...........................
 
I don't have a problem with the price of tickets for sporting events, or the salaries paid to professional athletes, or any other costs. We as consumers can choose not to buy the product, and if an athlete can negotiate the highest pay for his services that the market will bear, well, I reserve that same right for myself, so I won't begrudge it him.

However, I do not agree that any public money should go to building any stadium. Let the team pay for it. I do not believe the cries of poverty that we hear, for example, from baseball team owners, when they want a stadium built, but don't want to pay for it themselves. Any time a franchise has come up for sale, there has always been a group of investors ready to step up and buy it. Even for teams that did not do well in terms of sales, there was always a buyer who thought he could turn the business around. It's just like any other business. One management team does poorly, so a competitor can come in, buy him out, and turn the organization around.

And building a new stadium in a city that is trying to get a franchise does not bring in more entertainment dollars, as is often claimed by a team looking for subsidies. It actually takes money away from existing entertainment businesses, such as local restaurants, bars, etc.

We just got a new stadium here in the Lehigh Valley, for the Phillies' Triple-A affiliate. While it's a nice park, and the team has drawn well, it should not have had one dollar of public money. The owners include the most successful minor league owner in the country, and they had more than enough money to build the park themselves. But they sought the money, and the governor used his influence, and so, we have Coca-Cola Park. The least they could have done is to call it Taxpayer Park, since we helped pay for it.



I usually don't begrudge anybody of anything if they have the talent or the smarts to make something out of themselves but pro atheltes are a joke nowadays and no they don't deserve what they get.There was a time a time when they did deserve more when the owners got almost everything and that was wrong but now the owners still make huge profits ( most of them ) and pass along the huge payrolls to the fans.Joe Average can't take his kids to the ballgame without spending a paycheck.As far as the wealthy going to the game and paying huge amounts they deserve what they get because of them thats why these teams charge these outrageous fees.Most of them don't know a football from a tennis ball but they can tell everybody "look at me,I'm a sports fans and I have season tickets"I use to love baseball but I don't even look at it anymore.I'm sick of the crybaby athletes and the phoney fans. I'll stick to my soldiers as they represent real men who have to do a real job and don't cry every time their feelings get hurt.
Mark
 
If you really like baseball, and you want to see players who are playing hard because they're trying to make it, try the minor leagues. I get Sunday season tickets to the Reading Phillies for my dad every year for Christmas. The seats are $11 each now, though they were $8 when we started 10 years ago. Food has gone up a little, but it's still not as much as the majors charge (though the $7.50 pulled-pork barbecue sandwiches at the Bull's Barbecue Pit at Citizens Bank Park are a bargain).

But either way, you're doing it right-as consumers, we don't have to buy it. I just don't like it when the state takes my money and gives it to a business that doesn't need it in the first place.
 
There was a time I had the best deal going, the baseball Cardinals, then football Cardinals and the Blues all hired off duty police to work security at the various stadiums. It was like I had a season pass to all the pro teams and got paid for going. Yes every once in a while I did have to do something, but for the most part it was watching the games.
Finally the football team moved to Arizona, the baseball games just seemed to get longer and longer and I got fed up with baseball altogether, and when the Blues moved to a new arena they said the security could not stand in the aisles and watch the game, I promptly quit!
The above experiance was good for a while but since I quit baseball in 1992, I have only been to one baseball game, never been back to a football game, but I do go to Blues games now and then.
By the way don,t be surprised if the Rams leave St Louis in about 5 years, there is something in their lease about the stadium, it,s only 12 years old, that it must be in the top 10 in the league.
Gary
 
By the way don,t be surprised if the Rams leave St Louis in about 5 years, there is something in their lease about the stadium, it,s only 12 years old, that it must be in the top 10 in the league.
Gary

Moving the Rams out of LA is without a doubt the most painful thing in the history of pro sports. I know the fans in St. Louis have supported the team, but get one from somewhere else. LA should have a pro football team. The NFL is a market savy business in every instance but this one. It borders on the incredible. I hope to live long enough to see the old Rams back in LA.
 
Baron,
I agree 100% with you about state money funding these projects.The taxpayer never gets back the money and the prices to go to these events makes it so Joe Average doesn't get to go very often.All this money being spent so a few can strut around like big shots.I thought there was no royality in America,boy was I stipud.
Mark
 

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