HIRIART Spanish Civil War Legionarios del Tercio (1 Viewer)

[ucla1967]

The Hiriart 40 set Spanish Civil War catalog has three sets of the Spanish Foreign Legion, two of which are also found in the 354 set regular catalog. The Spanish Foreign Legion was a combat harded unit which was serving in Spanish Morocco when the war broke out. It was founded in 1920 and saw service in the Riff War of 1920-25. Only about 10 percent of its members were foreigners; the balance were Spaniards. General (then Major) Francisco Franco was second-in-command to its founder, Colonel Millan Astry. By 1936, the Legion was considered an elite fighting unit which comprised six Banderas (battalions); by the end of the war in 1939, they had grown to 18 Banderas and an armored unit.

The first set is ES-09 LEGIONARIOS DEL TERCIO which shows the legionarios in their summer uniforms. This is also in the regular catalog as Set 1208. Note the three man Hotchkiss macine gun crew.

 

[ucla1967]

This is Hiriart's set ES-10 ARTILLERIA ANTICARRO DE LA LEGION which of course refers to anti-tank artillery in English. I am particulally found of how the anti-tank gun is being pulled by four crewmen. I have this set in my collection, but it is the only Spanish Foreign Legion set that is not also available in the regular Hiriart catalog.

 

[lancer]

Those are a couple of real attractive sets, Mike. Once again the red trim sets of the figures and who doesn't like white spats? -- Al

 

[ucla1967]

Those are a couple of real attractive sets, Mike. Once again the red trim sets of the figures and who doesn't like white spats? -- Al

Thanks Al. I also like how their light green ("ceniza" in Spanish) shirts contrast with the darker olive green trousers and head gear. Brad can probably tell us what color that really is.

 

[jazzeum]

Do you mean ceniza, Mike. Don't think I know.

I'll tell you one thing, the Legion was feared -- and barbaric. Franco's shock troops, along with the Regulares, Moroccan mercenaries.

 

[ucla1967]

Do you mean ceniza, Mike. Don't think I know.

I'll tell you one thing, the Legion was feared -- and barbaric. Franco's shock troops, along with the Regulares, Moroccan mercenaries.

Yes, the Spanish description says: "Camisa color 'ceniza,' remangada." It is not surprising that you don't know since it was in quotes which must mean that is somhow different or unique.

The Spanish Civil War saw barbarism on both sides. The extreme Left murdered non-combantant priests, landowners, monarchists, etc. In July 1936, it was a close thing as to which side would stage a coup d'etat first against the Republican government: the anti-communist military or the Communists and Anarchists who intended to impose a Stalinist-like Communist state.

 

[jazzeum]

Ceniza means ashes so that is an ash like color and remangada means tucked up.

I think you need to go back and re-read your history. The amount of atrocities on the Republican side pales in comparison to the Nationalist side. It's not even close. Only right wingers would maintain that today. It's not as if the Left didn't have justification? Why do you think landowners, priests and monarchists were murdered, particulalry in Andalusia and other farming regions. The landowners didn't give crap about the peasants and exacted every last cent they could, not caring in the least if they starved to death. I lived in Spain in the late 60s when Franco was still in power and once you got outside the cities, nothing had changed. The countryside was still impoverished. It was appalling. I can only imagine what it was like back in the 1930 and this was Barcelona and Madrid, not even the South where poverty was acute. The Church was complicit in this and part of the power structure (not forgetting that Spain has always been, as odd as it may seem, anti-clerical). In addition, the Guardia Civil was the instrument of repression, carrying out the bidding of the Right.

When the Republic came into power, it tried to reform the system in a very small way by giving land to peasants and re-distributing power and, basically, to navigate to a democracy. The right's reaction? They fought every reform tooth and nail. The right sowed the reaction they received in 1936.

The Left was hardly going to revolt in 1936 as the Popular Front had just won the election. Moreover, the Right and the Army had been plotting an overthrow of the Republic for a very long time. The Right never made any pretense about what they would do. When the Francoist forces first took over the Canaries, the first thing they did was shoot the Civil Governor and anybody expected to be supportive of the Republic, the legally constituted government.

In Spain, Faulkner's statement comes to life: "The past isn't dead and buried. In fact, it isn't even past."

Unless you've been to Spain and lived there, you can't appreciate the deep emotions that it continues to arouse.

 

[jazzeum]

Following up on the question of atrocities on both sides during the Civil War, I took a look at Beevor's The Battle for Spain. People killed in the Republican zone amounted to approximately 38,000 during the Civil War. In the Nationalist zone, 80,000 were killed by the Nationalists. This was based on research done in the ten years before 2006 for registered deaths in over half of Spain. However, if one takes into account deaths that were not registered and you allow for provinces not then studied, the number of deaths and executions (both during the War and after) increases to approximately 200,000.

Elimination of political enemies was not a matter of policy for the Government but it was a matter of conscious design by the Nationalists. General Emilio Mola, one of the principal leaders of the conspiracy (who later died under mysterious circumstances; some believe Franco was responsible) said that "we must extend the terror; we must impose the impression of dominion while eliminating without scruples everyone who does not think as we do."

 

[ucla1967]

Ceniza means ashes so that is an ash like color and remangada means tucked up.

I think you need to go back and re-read your history. The amount of atrocities on the Republican side pales in comparison to the Nationalist side. It's not even close. Only right wingers would maintain that today. It's not as if the Left didn't have justification? Why do you think landowners, priests and monarchists were murdered, particulalry in Andalusia and other farming regions. The landowners didn't give crap about the peasants and exacted every last cent they could, not caring in the least if they starved to death. I lived in Spain in the late 60s when Franco was still in power and once you got outside the cities, nothing had changed. The countryside was still impoverished. It was appalling. I can only imagine what it was like back in the 1930 and this was Barcelona and Madrid, not even the South where poverty was acute. The Church was complicit in this and part of the power structure (not forgetting that Spain has always been, as odd as it may seem, anti-clerical). In addition, the Guardia Civil was the instrument of repression, carrying out the bidding of the Right.

When the Republic came into power, it tried to reform the system in a very small way by giving land to peasants and re-distributing power and, basically, to navigate to a democracy. The right's reaction? They fought every reform tooth and nail. The right sowed the reaction they received in 1936.

The Left was hardly going to revolt in 1936 as the Popular Front had just won the election. Moreover, the Right and the Army had been plotting an overthrow of the Republic for a very long time. The Right never made any pretense about what they would do. When the Francoist forces first took over the Canaries, the first thing they did was shoot the Civil Governor and anybody expected to be supportive of the Republic, the legally constituted government.

In Spain, Faulkner's statement comes to life: "The past isn't dead and buried. In fact, it isn't even past."

Unless you've been to Spain and lived there, you can't appreciate the deep emotions that it continues to arouse.

Well Brad, I am not sure I need to go back and re-read my history. After all, I attended and graduated from one of the top ten ranked public universities in the United States---UCLA. I majored in political science with a concentration in international relations and a minor in history. I focused on the theory, history, and practice of international communism. Your justification for atrocities commited by the Left in Spain is surprising to say the least, in that it is a core belief of Marxist-Lenninism that the end justifies the means. So, the fact that the aristocracy didn't give a crap about the peasants justifies killing them and seizing their land? I think not. What's the justification for the Popular Front's disolving the Jesuit order, murdering priests, and burning down churches? The end justifies the means? What you characterize as "reforms" can be viewed as something quite different by those bearing the brunt of those so-called reforms.


I will remind you that the 1936 Spanish election was a very close thing, with the left-wing Popular Front winning 34.3% of the vote to the right-wing National Front's 33.2%. Hardly a mandate for land seizures and the redistribution of wealth, although Joe Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, and Kim Il Jung would agree with you. In Antony Beevor's introduction to his book "The Battle for Spain," he writes: "The Spanish Civil War remains one of the few modern conflicts whose history has been more effectively written by the losers than by the winners." He continues: "Truth was indeed the first casualty of the Spanish Civil War." I believe that there is more than a grain of truth in his comments.

 

[jazzeum]

Well Brad, I am not sure I need to go back and re-read my history. After all, I attended and graduated from one of the top ten ranked public universities in the United States---UCLA. I majored in political science with a concentration in international relations and a minor in history. I focused on the theory, history, and practice of international communism. Your justification for atrocities commited by the Left in Spain is surprising to say the least, in that it is a core belief of Marxist-Lenninism that the end justifies the means. So, the fact that the aristocracy didn't give a crap about the peasants justifies killing them and seizing their land? I think not. What's the justification for the Popular Front's disolving the Jesuit order, murdering priests, and burning down churches? The end justifies the means? What you characterize as "reforms" can be viewed as something quite different by those bearing the brunt of those so-called reforms.


I will remind you that the 1936 Spanish election was a very close thing, with the left-wing Popular Front winning 34.3% of the vote to the right-wing National Front's 33.2%. Hardly a mandate for land seizures and the redistribution of wealth, although Joe Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, and Kim Il Jung would agree with you. In Antony Beevor's introduction to his book "The Battle for Spain," he writes: "The Spanish Civil War remains one of the few modern conflicts whose history has been more effectively written by the losers than by the winners." He continues: "Truth was indeed the first casualty of the Spanish Civil War." I believe that there is more than a grain of truth in his comments.

Thank you for your c.v. but what that has to do with anything is besides me.

This little discussion began regarding the atrocities on both sides with your seeming to equate one side with the other whereas the facts show quite that the repression, what Paul Preston has called the Spanish Holocaust, was committed by the Nationalists.

I also found it amusing how you invoke Marxism-Leninism (as is typical of people of your era) as if the Republic before the Civil War was a Communist state when all that it tried to be was a typical democracy, one that was interested in trying to help the people who never had had anything. However, as is typical in many new democracies the entrenched interests wouldn't give up power and they wouldn't do it peacefully. Strikes by workers and peasants were brutally repressed, even before the advent of the Republic. This was not exactly a European or American style democracy where you could wait until the next election and hope you get into power next time. The oligarchy wouldn't give up power peacefully and if you purportedly studied history you would know that. So in your view of things, "oh, sorry, boys, wait another sixty years." Yes, when people are repressed, with no likely amelioration in sight, yes, what do you think will be the result. Let's not be naive.

Although the Popular Front may not have won a resounding victory in the amount of votes, they won a majority of the seats in the Cortes and they were the victors and the constitutionally elected government and as such the losers had to respect that. Instead, what did they did do? Conspire and use every effort to sabotage it. That seems to be ok from your perspective; honor democratic norms when it suits your interests.

Was the Civil War pleasant? No, it's a civil war. Were there excesses on both sides, no kidding, some of which were recounted to me by family friends and were horrific. Hopefully, something like this will never happen again as Spain has many different problems nowadays.

 

[ucla1967]

Thank you for your c.v. but what that has to do with anything is besides me.

This little discussion began regarding the atrocities on both sides with your seeming to equate one side with the other whereas the facts show quite that the repression, what Paul Preston has called the Spanish Holocaust, was committed by the Nationalists.

I also found it amusing how you invoke Marxism-Leninism (as is typical of people of your era) as if the Republic before the Civil War was a Communist state when all that it tried to be was a typical democracy, one that was interested in trying to help the people who never had had anything. However, as is typical in many new democracies the entrenched interests wouldn't give up power and they wouldn't do it peacefully. Strikes by workers and peasants were brutally repressed, even before the advent of the Republic. This was not exactly a European or American style democracy where you could wait until the next election and hope you get into power next time. The oligarchy wouldn't give up power peacefully and if you purportedly studied history you would know that. So in your view of things, "oh, sorry, boys, wait another sixty years." Yes, when people are repressed, with no likely amelioration in sight, yes, what do you think will be the result. Let's not be naive.

Although the Popular Front may not have won a resounding victory in the amount of votes, they won a majority of the seats in the Cortes and they were the victors and the constitutionally elected government and as such the losers had to respect that. Instead, what did they did do? Conspire and use every effort to sabotage it. That seems to be ok from your perspective; honor democratic norms when it suits your interests.

Was the Civil War pleasant? No, it's a civil war. Were there excesses on both sides, no kidding, some of which were recounted to me by family friends and were horrific. Hopefully, something like this will never happen again as Spain has many different problems nowadays.

Need I remind you that this was nothing more than my thread about toy soldiers before you injected your personal, poltiical opinions about the SCW. As to my involking Marxism-Leninism, the positions you hold are what they are. If it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, .... In any case, lets agree to disagree and not discuss this any more. I am returning this thread to its original purpose and intent.

 

[ucla1967]

This is the third Spanish Foreign Legion set in Hiriart's Spanish Civil War catalog: Set ES-28 BANDERA DE LA LEGION. It is also found in the regular Hiriart catalog as Set 1181.

 

[jazzeum]

We will agree to disagree but as I lived in Spain and knew people who had suffered from Franco and who were exiled from Spain (at pain of their lives) this will terminate our involvement, pleasant until now.

 

[ucla1967]

We will agree to disagree but as I lived in Spain and knew people who had suffered from Franco and who were exiled from Spain (at pain of their lives) this will terminate our involvement, pleasant until now.

Thank you.

 

[jazzeum]

There is nothing to thank me for nor do I want your thanks.

 

[ucla1967]

This is a different version of set 1181 that I recently picked up on eBay. Compare the green color of their uniforms to the version of this set I have on post #12.