How did you discover K&C? (1 Viewer)

gk5717

2nd Lieutenant
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Apr 22, 2005
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I first took notice at the 2001 OTSN show.
Went back and forth about buying metal figures, as I was a plastics guy.
I would occasionally check K&C,s site and when it was posted they were doing mounted Germans, that,s when I decided to buy.
The rest is history.
Gary
 
I am a big fan of General Patton (Louis I know your views on him...and I'm sorry you feel that way! ;-) and I was searching the web and found the Patton Command Car from this company called King and Country and I thought..."That would look cool on my desk!" So I looked up the dealer that was closest to me...which happened to be Bill Moore. I went out to Bill's house and was blown away by the product....so I bought more. Then I thought...boy this would look even cooler on a diorama...so I started down the path of learning how to build dioramas. Well the more dioramas you have the more soldiers you must have too right?? And now I can't stop!! :eek:
 
I was looking through an issue of Toy Soldier Magazine in late 1994 and I saw an advertisement (to this day I don't remember if it was from K&C directly, or from Kings X, the San Antonio Dealer who had the U.S. exclusive) for a glossy mounted Teddy Roosevelt with 2 dismounted marching "Rough Riders", and I was really impressed by the detail of the sculpting and paint finish. I know that I contacted Joan at Kings X and bought the set. From that moment on I was hooked. There was no website back then, so I contacted the only local dealer listed on the flyers that came with my first purchase (the only dealer in New York State back then was the Toy Soldier Gallery in Highland Falls), and I drove up a month or so later in January, 1995. There were the first 4 or 5 sets of Waffen SS (in both glossy and matt), and one or two wood vehicles in stock. I bought one of the wood vehicles (a Hanomag) and two sets of Waffen SS, one glossy, one matt. I also bought a Royal Marine Band and Color Party (glossy). Tony Ciccerillo (the proprietor) told me there were British Paratroopers from Arnhem expected any day. Needless to say, a couple of wekends later I drove back up to the shop (across the Street from West Point), and I bought the first Arnhem set. I've been hooked ever since.
 
I first got interested in any type of soldiers, let alone K & C, when I first returned from Normandy last summer. My son had some Forces of Valor material so we put them in some poses, mini dioramas so to speak. But that wasn't enough for me. So I looked at ebay for the only company I knew, which was Britains and I bought a couple of sets. I have always been an anglophile so I was interested in British soldiers. I was then looking around for shops that carried soldiers in or near my town in NJ and after some searching I discovered there was one actually in my town. So I went there and asked the owner about Britains but then I saw K & C and he explained everything to me, how they're sold, how they're made, etc. since I knew nothing about soldiers and never had them except for a few plastics when I was a kid.

Well, I bought the Highlander set, EA 01, and the next day returned with my son and we got a D Day set, then the week after 2 more sets and so on. And the rest is history. We mostly had American sets in the beginning but now have a lot of German sets. Of course, we bought all the British Western Europe sets and I'm looking forward to what's coming out this summer.
 
I also had been a plastic collector,apart from my britians metal parade sets,and was always looking for armoured vehicles to add to my scenes.around 2002,as i was selling on ebay ..always looking i chanced on some K+C sets .well happy to say i was hooked..to date only german.mingled in with Britians and Del Prado.I buy mostly from america,as aussie prices are usually 30% dearer.I have been collecting most of my life ,i love this hobby,and also know that K+C is a secure investment...ern
 
I was hooked on 21st century 32X and followed old GP's forum. There was a bit of talk about K&C figures there between a gk5717, GP and others. They were the ones that introduced me and my first purchased set was the germans in the raft. Thats when I was blown away and infected with the K&C addiction.
 
Brian, for the umpteenth time, I don't hate Patton. I merely hold him responsible for his idiotic choice of the Sherman over the Pershing as the main battle tank for the Allies at Tidesworth Downs (read Belton Cooper's book "Deathtraps" for a full description of how Patton, the ranking officer on the commission, overrulled every other officer involved and chose the Sherman on the mistaken belief that because it was lighter, it would be faster and travel better cross-country [which was incorrect because the Sherman was underpowered, and thus slower than the Pershing, and had very narrow tracks, so exerted greater pressure per square inch of track than the Pershing and bogged down more often]). As a result of Patton's failure to do his homework, tens of thousands of allied soldiers died when the underarmored, undergunned, and poorly designed Sherman was forced to face Panthers and Tigers. Further, Patton's ill advised attempt to free his son in law with a raid that cost a full combat command from an armored division demonstrated the man viewed his command as more toy soldiers than American troops. He was, however, sadly, the best army commander the Allies could field, head and shoulders above that putz Montgomery, or Mark Clark. He wasn't, however, half the commander that Guderian, or Von Rundstet or Rommel were. It is very fortunate for the Allies that the 8th Air Force gave Patton air supremecy and unprecedented close air support. In excess of 80% of the enemy armored vehicles destroyed on the western theater were knocked out by airpower.
 
First, I found out about this outfit called "King and Country" from an ad that ran in Military Modeler magazine some years ago. The ad showed the WC64 ambualnce and medics, among other things. As a collector and fan of things GI I was very impressed with the rendition of the US Army ETO uniforms. It took a LONG time (it seemed) to finally get to see some in person and I was hooked!

Second, Louis - VERY IMPORTANT: as a US armor researcher for years, don't be mislead by "Death Traps"! Cooper wrote a fine book, and he saw some stuff no man should have had to see, BUT he was just an Ordnance lieutenant in Europe, he was NOT in the R&D of vehicles back in the US. His ETO stuff is good, but when Cooper tries to comment on Patton versus tank R&D he's wandering into areas where he does not have the facts. I can write at length on why your beliefs are not justified but the BEST single reference is Charles Baily's "Faint Praise, American Tanks and Tank Destroyers". It's darned difficult to find, but it has the REAL story of why our guys went into battle with obsolescent tank, and Patton isn't much in the story. By the way, Baily points out that there was NO WAY any Pershing could have been present in time for Normandy. The US Army just plain got caught behind in the R&D and production cycle, mostly due to Pentagon policy, bad information, and Ordnance pushing for the wrong vehicle. Patton is no angel, be he doesn't deserve the blame for mediocre tanks.
 
I don't want to jump in the middle of this argument but in Max Hasting's new book Armageddon, he devotes a few pages to the Hammelburg raid to liberate Patton's son in law. Over objections, he sent 294 men with sixteen tanks, twenty seven halftracks and assorted support vehicles. Of these only fifteen men returned to the allied lines. The remainder were captured or killed. Hastings writes that Patton attempted to censor the incident but it was leaked to the press. Marshall was outraged although Ike excused him: "He is a problem child, but he is great fighting leader in pursuit and exploitation." Hastings says: "The episode must be cited in any assessment of Patton's claim to greatness. It is impossible to imagine any other senior participant in the Allied campaign committing such a selfish, murderous folly or being pardoned for the loss of life which it incurred. At a moment when all Europe was on it knees, when Germany was a maelstrom of suffering humanity, an Allied army commander committed an act which argued that he cared only for his own." In Hastings' view, this was far worse than the slapping incidents.

BTW, if you haven't read this book, I highly recommend it.
 

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I have to respectfully disargee with your assessment of Patton's responsibility for choosing the Sherman over the Pershing. Whether or not the Pershing could have been ready for D-Day, the choice to go with the Sherman was Patton's and Patton's alone. It was the wrong choice, for the wrong reasons. Patton's rationale, on the papers from the Tideworth Down commission, as quoted by Belton Cooper (which unless he is lying in print, I am ready to believe, particularly since, when I read Patton's memoirs, I felt he was less than forthcoming), was "under our doctrine, tanks don't fight tanks, tank destroyers fight tanks". Tell that to the Germans, apparently they were unaware of our doctrine. I don't know the first thing about the R&D process in the U.S. Millitary at that time, but I do know that before the M1A1 Abrams, we never sent our troops to war with the best armored vehicles (the development of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle being a recent example of our poor R&D). If I seem a little bitter about this choice, it is because way too many good men died as a result. I have never heard an allied tanker who fought a Sherman against a German Tank speak well of the model. I also know that by April, 1945, even despite theTidesworth Downs decision to put the Pershing on the back burner, 9 Pershings were put into service. If this is the case, I think that the opinion of your source that the Pershing could not have been ready for service 10 months earlier if all of our resources had been put behind our production is questionable. Even assuming the Sherman couldn't have been ready for D-Day, it would have been mighty helpful in the drive across France and Holland, and the Sherman was as helpless against the superior german Panthers and Tigers as using the stop-gap M3 Grant/Lee for an extra couple of months would have been. I could be wrong, and the fault might not lay with Patton, but who ever put our troops into Battle against the Panzer IV longbarrel, Panther and Tiger should have been court martialed.
 
I have built 1/35 WWII models for years and then started collecting die cast 1/72 scale stuff. I heard about the K&C stuff from several members here on another board. I bought the Bulge sets and was amazed at the detail and poses. I have become hooked trying to get some of the older sets and all the newer sets. Thanks to the guys who got me started I know who you are ;)
 
Jazz,

The "other board" is the 1/32nd scale area of the Small Scale HQ forum. The K&C people there were generally looked on with sympathy by the FOV and 21st Century disciples, who could fill a room (and build an extension to their houses with the spare change) for the same price the K&C people profess to expend on retired K&C sets.

http://www.warbird-photos.com/gpxd/index.php?sid=7ff07efe2ab2271769a0492944e91e39

Everyone has moved over now but you can follow previous topics.

I think you've already found the Diecast Aircraft Forum. There were one or two isolated K&C posts on that site too:

http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/showthread.php?t=17578
and
http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/archive/index.php/t-8894.html

Clearly even in 2001 some people were fainting at the sight of the new releases back then and if you're a member there you could probably find out if anyone retained their secondary interest in infantry and armour in addition to their diecast aircraft obsession.

Regards,
CannonFodder1971
 
Sorry Brad,
Forgot one "other forum" which may be of interest:

http://p200.ezboard.com/fromanarmytalkfrm14.showMessage?topicID=127.topic

On that webiste a Jasper OOrthuys claims that he did the sculpting master for the Arnhem Recce Jeep (ie the one which K&C no-one can find). Maybe Louis can help out on that issue.

That's just a few links. There are hundreds of forums (fora?) out there and you can be sure that K&C will feature in any that have serious toy soldier collectors on board.

Regards
 
As far as the existence of an Arnhem Recce Jeep, I can vouch for that (I have one in the room with me as I type). Its exactly like the other metal Arnhem Jeeps, except it has two vickers maxim maching guns mounted on the dash in front of the passenger seat, a tarp tied down on the hood, six extra Jerry Cans of gas in the back, and came with two different figures(a driver and gunner). The same jeep, with a couple of additions, like an extra radiator fluid container mounted in front of the grill, was repainted in desert camo as the SAS Jeep. As to who the master sculpter is for the Jeep, you would have to ask Andy, as I have no idea. Andy, however, regularly monitors the forum, so you may get your answer right from the horses mouth.
 
Joe,

Thanks for the links. Yes, I had found the die cast aviation sites but to no avail as finding a warbird (could be a long quest ;) ).
 
I discovered K&C on the internet when I was searching for some 1/35 scale figures back in 2000. I build 1/35 scale armor models like the one I'm selling on ebay. Sdkfz 138 Grille tank :) I ordered some K&C figures and they were awesome and then I put them against my 1/35 figures and they look like giants. So I bought some Britains and they still didn't match so I got discouraged a bit with the scale and price. I didn't buy any for a year or two but I saw the new release and was amazed and now I have all the D-Day and Waffen retired sets.
 

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