Identifying Britains horse artillery team – 1940s? (1 Viewer)

[ArtMod]

Can anyone identify a Britains' horse artillery team of six horses with three riders plus mounted officer and trumpeter? They seem unusual because all the men and horses are in different naturalistic poses, unlike most Britains’ sets.

They have been modified to form a model gun team which will have removed any value that they may have had as toy soldiers. The photo shows their current state where they have been repainted from the original gloss, and changes have been made to tack and equipment, most significantly the original breast harness has been replaced with full horse collars. So the details in the photo are not helpful but hopefully the poses might be sufficiently distinctive for someone to recognise them.

‘Britains Ltd’ markings are on the belly of each horse (as well as ‘Proprietary Copyright’ and ‘Made in England’ on some) which mean they are 1907 or later. I understand that the original breast harness means that they are ‘later’ (because early sets had full horse collars) but the rectangular bases indicate that they are not that late. In some areas the metal is not good quality which may suggest post war, perhaps late 1940s, when there were still shortages.

Any information would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[theBaron]

Welcome to the forum!

As you note, these have been highly modified, they are not a stock set. Determining when they were modified is difficult, without more documentation about their provenance. Hobbyists have been modifying Britains for years, at least going back to the beginnings of the British Model Soldier Society. I do not think they came from Britains workshop like this.

As to the quality of the metal, up to the mid-60s, the alloy had a higher content of lead mixed in, so I'm not surprised if some of the metal looks like it's of lesser quality than say, a current Imrie-Risley casting. We can check our resources, though, eg, Opie's books or Norman Joplin's, to help identify the original figures and the range of dates in which they were issued.

Prost!
Brad

 

[thebritfarmer]

Most horses never had bases. These are so heavily modified, I doubt if we could even identify what the original figures were. Can you get a snap of the copyright on the horses bellies?

 

[Arnhemjim]

Hello ArtMod,
Based upon the imagery, the character and execution of the grouping, and your description, my considered judgement would be that the converted Britains are likely to be the work of either Capt Roy Dilley or Maj Henry Harris, both retired officers of the British Army, as well as highly accomplished model soldier artists. I personally do not know whether either are still alive. I commend to your attention, if you can find a copy , the book; HOW TO GO COLLECTING MODEL SOLDIERS, H. Harris, Paterick Stephens, London, 1969, SBN 85059 036 1.
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

 

[theBaron]

Hello ArtMod,
Based upon the imagery, the character and execution of the grouping, and your description, my considered judgement would be that the converted Britains are likely to be the work of either Capt Roy Dilley or Maj Henry Harris, both retired officers of the British Army, as well as highly accomplished model soldier artists. I personally do not know whether either are still alive. I commend to your attention, if you can find a copy , the book; HOW TO GO COLLECTING MODEL SOLDIERS, H. Harris, Paterick Stephens, London, 1969, SBN 85059 036 1.
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

Excellent point, Jim! I think I have Harris' book in my library. I'm going to look there first.

ArtMod, can you tell us more about how you acquired these figures--for example, through an auction, from a friend, etc? That could help provide more details to identify them and date them.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Hazebrouck]

I am with Arnhem Jim and would agree they look very much like Roy Dilley's work.

Below is an image from 'Modelling Miniature Figures' edited by Bruce Quarrie. Roy Dilley wrote a chapter in the book on converting old Britains hollow casts. Basically he was using the bodies of Britains figures, removing the moulded equipment and replacing heads. All other equipment he made and there is mention that reins were made from hammered brass wire. Also mentioned are that on the horse in the image the tail was replaced with one from Rose Miniatures.

I would compare the heads of yours with the one in the image.

I think the line in your post that 'they have been modified to form a model gun team which will remove any value they had as toy soldiers' might need some reconsideration.

They are nice items and worthy of further research.

Scott

 

[ArtMod]

Thank you for all the responses. The reference to Henry Harris’ book led to his other book, ‘Model Soldiers’ which I haven’t seen yet but I am told has photos of similar figures to mine that are modified Britains. So I will be buying both those and looking at the other ones mentioned.

My figures were bought on EBay UK last year as a project to rebuild into a new gun team. The team was described as of ‘unknown’ make, it was missing its original gun and limber and had minor damage (missing horse ear, spurs, top of hats etc.), and had been repainted. There was an unrelated modern Britains field gun sold with the team so the magic word Britains did appear in the lot description which should have alerted any serious Britains collector. Possibly the figures weren’t recognised or collectors were put off by the condition.

No manufacturer’s marks were visible until after the paint was removed for the rebuild. If I had known that they were Britains I probably wouldn’t have changed them but it is reassuring to know that converting Britains figures is a time honoured practice even if these aren’t up to Henry Harris’ standard. The only changes to mine have been equipment, tack and harness so all the horses and men retain their original heads, tails etc and positions.

Unfortunately I do not have any pre-modification photos and it’s now not practical to take photos of the manufacturer's markings.

It is very encouraging to learn so much so quickly, so thanks again to everyone.

 

[ArtMod]

This is an update based on Henry Harris’ Model Soldiers (first Octopus Books edition 1972, copyright 1962) and John J Garratt’s Model Soldiers a Collector’s Guide (second edition 1965, first published 1959).

Photo 109 in Harris’ book shows a similar team and the rider of the lead horse appears identical to my wheeler rider so presumably from the same series. Described as modified Britains portraying a RFA team c 1899, there is no information on when the figures were produced.

Garratt in his ‘Index and Directory’ lists the Britains’ markings by period which are reproduced at the foot of this post. The only period that has all three markings corresponding to my figures is 1937 to 1945. According to Harris (page 24) the UK government encouraged Britains to continue producing for the American market in the early years of the war, and as other sources state that production ceased during the war, that would suggest 1937 to early 1940s.

However I suspect that the markings for 1913 to 1936 in Garratt’s table are incomplete because there is no mention of country of origin which was mandatory for exports to USA during this period. The McKinley Tariff Act required English companies to mark their products with ‘England’ from 1890 and ‘Made in England’ from 1921, although some companies including Britains were using the latter before that date.

Even so the use of ‘Proprietors’ suggests pre- or early war years (my apologies there was a typo on my first post which incorrectly said ‘Proprietary’). That period ties in with Harris’s comment (page 26) that in addition to standard figures Britains produced collectors figures ‘before 1939 but found it unsuccessful’ - if these are collectors figures it would explain their non-standard naturalised appearance.

That you again for your help that has brought me this far. I have ordered the August reprint of James Opie’s Britains Toy Soldiers which may reveal more and in the meantime any comments will be appreciated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Extract from Garratt’s Model Soldiers a Collector’s Guide ‘Index and Directory’ table of Britains marks (but see caveat above re 1913):
1900 – 12. COPYRIGHT Wm. BRITAIN Jrn [sic]– date (and sometimes MADE IN ENGLAND)
1913. BRITAINS LTD COPYRIGHT PROPRIETORS.
1937. MADE IN ENGLAND BRITAINS LTD COPYRIGHT PROPRIETORS.
1946. COPYRIGHT BRITAINS LTD MADE IN ENGLAND.
1956. BRITAINS LTD ENGLAND.

 

[ArtMod]

Further reading did not identify what these figures are so I contacted James Opie, author of the excellent “Britains Toy Soldiers, The History and Handbook 1893 - 2013”, for his help. His thoughts ruled out a few of my theories and these are now my conclusions.

Firstly these are not Britains figures nor are they original Britains figures which have been converted, despite the Britains copyright markings on the horses. James Opie advised that all Britains 6 horse teams consisted of 3 identical pairs of horses and these are hollow cast figures in different poses which are unchanged from when they were cast.

The probable explanation is that they were home cast using a series of converted Britains figures as masters. This would explain:
- The Britains copyright marks on the bellies of the horses which would be on the masters and be reproduced on the home-casts.
- The absence of evidence of conversion on the figures, as that would only be apparent on the original converted figures used as masters.
- The existence of other similar figures as seen in photos in Henry Harris' books.

Arnhem Jim and Scott suggested Henry Harris or Roy Dilley as the convertor and both cover home casting in their books. However the photo of a similar team in Harris’ book ‘Model Soldiers’ is just captioned ‘Conversions from Britains in the Author’s Collection’ whereas most of the captions in the book name the converter (e.g. ‘by the author’, ‘by R.S. Dilley’) which may suggest the figures are not by them.

As Brad said at the start determining when and who modified them will be difficult, so I suspect I will not get any further. None the less it has been a fascinating insight into the world of Britains and the convertors, so thank you to everyone who responded to my post and to James Opie for generously sharing his knowledge with me.