Info on uniforms of Marlburnian figures??? (1 Viewer)

[Bottlesoldier]

G'day guys, I am trying to get the details of the British drummer and ensign of the Scotts Guards Marlborough's army of 1704 -05. I would like to do it as accurate as possible, for a regiment I'm doing in 54mm. Is anyone able to help with info please? ie, pics or descriptions. Thanks guys. Cheers, Johno.

 

[johnnybach]

G'day guys, I am trying to get the details of the British drummer and ensign of the Scotts Guards Marlborough's army of 1704 -05. I would like to do it as accurate as possible, for a regiment I'm doing in 54mm. Is anyone able to help with info please? ie, pics or descriptions. Thanks guys. Cheers, Johno.

Hi Johnno - Try putting; "British Battles.com" into your machine. Lots of descriptions and pictures there for most major battles. Look down the left of the screen for battles around the dates you want - and you might find what you are looking for - it's a gold-mine of information. Good luck - johnnybach

 

[Bottlesoldier]

Hi Johnno - Try putting; "British Battles.com" into your machine. Lots of descriptions and pictures there for most major battles. Look down the left of the screen for battles around the dates you want - and you might find what you are looking for - it's a gold-mine of information. Good luck - johnnybach

G'day Johnny, Thanks mate, I appreciate that. I'll give that a go. I'll let you know how I fare with it. Cheers, Johno.

 

[johnnybach]

There is a good section on Marlborough led battles between1704 - 1709 in that lot - but I am not at all certain that the Scots Guards were present at them - but well worth a look anyway. Have a look at Wikipedia and Scots Guards Association on Internet as well. Last tip is to look up some of the firms that sell "Military Prints" - you might be lucky there too?

Best if someone comes up with what you want though! good luck, johnnybach

 

[Obee]

Johno,

I've been doing some reading of my books, and it seems that the drummers had reverse colours to the infantry.

Scots would have had blue facings being Guards, so I'd assume that the drummer would have a blue coat with red facings. The lace could have been yellow, like the Grenadier Guards.

I'll see what else I can find out for you,

John

 

[marco55]

Try some of these sites. www.pikeandshotsociety.org www.hmgs.org www.uniformology.com
Mark

 

[Bottlesoldier]

G'day guys, I have looked at the sites you put me onto. Greatly appreciated thankyou. There is some info there which is very usefull. There is a bit of conjecture with the drummers, in that the Guard regiments had the red coat with the same blue cuffs and the foot regiments had the coat as facing colour, and the cuffs as coat colour. Also the mitre was also worn by some regiments and the tricorn by others. There seems to be scant info on this period. Maybe I should just paint ACW or something easier. Also the crest on the drum. Is it the Queen Anne coat of arms? Stupid me for being so pedantic. Anyway guys, thanks for your help.{sm2}
Cheers, Johno.

 

[marco55]

I would think there would be more info on this period as Marlborough is a giant in British military history.
Mark

 

[Bottlesoldier]

I would think there would be more info on this period as Marlborough is a giant in British military history.
Mark

I thought the same Mark, but I can't find a pic/painting of a drummer in the Scotts Guards 1704 period. I think lots on the armies formation and tactics etc, but limited on regiments uniforms. Cheers. Johno.

 

[trooper]

Johno,

I've been doing some reading of my books, and it seems that the drummers had reverse colours to the infantry.

Scots would have had blue facings being Guards, so I'd assume that the drummer would have a blue coat with red facings. The lace could have been yellow, like the Grenadier Guards.

I'll see what else I can find out[/I][/B]

Prior to 1707 the regiment was carried on the Scottish establishment and had white facings. They didn't adopt the title 3rd Foot Guards until 1712. The practice of wearing reversed colour coats for drummers does not seem to have been adopted by the Guards but it is possible that the Scots might have done so prior to 1707. Also the mitre caps mentioned by Johno would have been worn by the Grenadier companies of each regiment, the tricorne or round hat by the remaining companies. Grenadier companies would also have had lace on their coats (as per the verse in "The British Grenadiers" referring to "wearing the looped clothes") the rest of the regiment wearing plain buttons. Hope this helps. Trooper

 

[Bottlesoldier]

Johno,

I've been doing some reading of my books, and it seems that the drummers had reverse colours to the infantry.

Scots would have had blue facings being Guards, so I'd assume that the drummer would have a blue coat with red facings. The lace could have been yellow, like the Grenadier Guards.

I'll see what else I can find out[/I][/B]

Prior to 1707 the regiment was carried on the Scottish establishment and had white facings. They didn't adopt the title 3rd Foot Guards until 1712. The practice of wearing reversed colour coats for drummers does not seem to have been adopted by the Guards but it is possible that the Scots might have done so prior to 1707. Also the mitre caps mentioned by Johno would have been worn by the Grenadier companies of each regiment, the tricorne or round hat by the remaining companies. Grenadier companies would also have had lace on their coats (as per the verse in "The British Grenadiers" referring to "wearing the looped clothes") the rest of the regiment wearing plain buttons. Hope this helps. Trooper

Thanks Trooper. I was the question asker of Obee re the drummers uniforms. This helps a great deal. Thanks. Cheers, Johno.

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Johno, You seem to have picked a Lulu as a project here. This reinforces my belief - that the further you go back in history - the more difficult it gets to find the details you may need. But don't let that stop you - makes it the more fun to chase down - and you will get help from some of the REAL experts in these areas - as you have seen.

Her's a couple of pics I copied from Wikipedia - just to help generally. They don't show Scots Guards - because I don't think they were at any of Marlborough's famous battles - they were busy in Scotland at the time you are interested in (c.1704-9).

First one is of Duke of Marlborough signing despatches in 1704 at Blenheim-Bavaria in 1704. This will give you an idea of general uniform appearance then:

Second one is of Battle of Blenheim itself. Note the fallen drummer at the left - and the size of the drums - which were generally much bigger then - than now.

Both of these pictures are in the public domain - according to Wiki - so are okay to reproduce for private study, incidentally. The tapestries at Blenheim Palace are also good sources of uniform information too - so you could have a look for pics of those too.

My last suggestion, is try and get a look at a book called "British Military Uniforms - from Contemporary Pictures from henry VII to the Present day (1957) by W Y Carman. It has some excellent pictures of Scots soldiers around thae time you are interested in - and good text descriptions too. (I picked up a copy from Amazon for around £3.[GB pounds]).

Anyway - hope this helps - don't get put off by difficulties - it may take some time - but with perseverance - you'll get there, I'm sure. And you are not being "too picky" - I'm like it too! Best of luck johnnybach

 

[Bottlesoldier]

Hi Johno, You seem to have picked a Lulu as a project here. This reinforces my belief - that the further you go back in history - the more difficult it gets to find the details you may need. But don't let that stop you - makes it the more fun to chase down - and you will get help from some of the REAL experts in these areas - as you have seen.

Her's a couple of pics I copied from Wikipedia - just to help generally. They don't show Scots Guards - because I don't think they were at any of Marlborough's famous battles - they were busy in Scotland at the time you are interested in (c.1704-9).

First one is of Duke of Marlborough signing despatches in 1704 at Blenheim-Bavaria in 1704. This will give you an idea of general uniform appearance then:

Second one is of Battle of Blenheim itself. Note the fallen drummer at the left - and the size of the drums - which were generally much bigger then - than now.

Both of these pictures are in the public domain - according to Wiki - so are okay to reproduce for private study, incidentally. The tapestries at Blenheim Palace are also good sources of uniform information too - so you could have a look for pics of those too.

My last suggestion, is try and get a look at a book called "British Military Uniforms - from Contemporary Pictures from henry VII to the Present day (1957) by W Y Carman. It has some excellent pictures of Scots soldiers around thae time you are interested in - and good text descriptions too. (I picked up a copy from Amazon for around £3.[GB pounds]).

Anyway - hope this helps - don't get put off by difficulties - it may take some time - but with perseverance - you'll get there, I'm sure. And you are not being "too picky" - I'm like it too! Best of luck johnnybach

Thanks Johnny. You are of course right, in that there is a pletheroa of talent on this site to get help from. I also collect military buttons dating back to 1700's. There is little info on anything prior to this and limited around early 1700's regarding individual specifics with uniforms.I am very patient. Much thanks mate. Cheers, Johno.{sm4}

 

[trooper]

Johnno, found these pics which I think you might find useful. the first is of the Scots Guards in the uniform they wore up until 1707. The second is of a drummer, NOT the Scots Guards, but which will give you an idea of the style of decoration worn by them. The Scots would have had a white coat with red cuffs and the lace could have been gold, silver or red, there is no information anywhere regarding that. I don't think you will find anyone to argue with whatever you decide to do. There is very little reliable information on the army prior to 1742, after that things get a lot easier. Bear that in mind with your next project. Trooper

 

[Bottlesoldier]

Johnno, found these pics which I think you might find useful. the first is of the Scots Guards in the uniform they wore up until 1707. The second is of a drummer, NOT the Scots Guards, but which will give you an idea of the style of decoration worn by them. The Scots would have had a white coat with red cuffs and the lace could have been gold, silver or red, there is no information anywhere regarding that. I don't think you will find anyone to argue with whatever you decide to do. There is very little reliable information on the army prior to 1742, after that things get a lot easier. Bear that in mind with your next project. Trooper

{sm4}Mate thats bloody fantastic. You're a magician. Many thanks for the help, greatly appreciated. Cheers, Johno.

 

[Obee]

This is what I LOVE about this Forum....

as a question and soorer or later someone can help you ,and all the rest of us who are really interested...

Well Done guys,

John