Ivan (1 Viewer)

MCKENNA77

Staff Sergeant
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Messages
913
Hello all:

I watched the movie "Enemy at the Gates" for the first time last night. I know some stuff about WWII but I am by no means an expert. Was the Russian Army really that disorganized and under equipped? If they were, must have been a miracle that occured at Stalingrad. Its one thing to see it on a movie screen, I cant even imagine having to live throught it.

Take Care

MCKENNA
 
Hello all:

I watched the movie "Enemy at the Gates" for the first time last night. I know some stuff about WWII but I am by no means an expert. Was the Russian Army really that disorganized and under equipped? If they were, must have been a miracle that occured at Stalingrad. Its one thing to see it on a movie screen, I cant even imagine having to live throught it.

Take Care

MCKENNA

They were disorganized early in the war. Most of the Russian staff officers had been purged in the late 30's by Stalin. In addition, Stalin refused to allow the Red Army to make adequate preparations for the German attack - either because he did not believe it would happen and/or he was attempting to avoid any possibility of provoking the Germans. As a result, most of the early battles were disasterous for the Russians. The stories about russian soldiers being forced to charge enemy positions unarmed -and hopefully picking up a rifle from a dead comrade are probably true. However, the russians learned quickly and by late '42 were a vastly improved fighting force. They also managed to move most of their industrial capacity beyond the reach of the Germans and thereby produce tremendous numbers of tanks, planes from 1942 onward.
 
Yes it was, but it was improving. FDR & Churchill were skeptical that the USSR would see 1943 and had a plan to carpet bomb the Baku oil fields in late 1942.

Stalingrad wasn't a miracle, it can be explained. On the German side, Hitler was increasingly running the Army in 1942, and he had mistakenly convinced himself that the Russian army was kaput as Operation Blue proceeded. This is because after the Kharkov '42 debacle in 5/42, Stalin started taking advice from his generals & retreated during Blue as the Russians had done with Napoleon. Hitler split his Army Group South, half to Stalingrad, half to the Caucausus, & got cut down on the Volga. Part of the reason why he forbade Paulus to escape the encirclement in late November is that the Germans still didn't know the Red Army was as strong as it indeed was. Thus, the window of opportunity quickly closed for Paulus in late November, because by the time the Germans figured out what they were dealing with, the encirlement had been solidified by the Russians.

At the micro level, Chuikov was hand picked to defend the city because he had been in Siberia during Barbarossa, and still had his spunk. He instilled it in his troops, who may have in poor shape in September as the city fight began, but had good morale. The German morale plummeted as they quickly got bogged down in the city, & saw the war wasn't over, and would have to endure a 2nd winter in Russia.

So, even though the Russians were taking 10 casualties for every German, at least 100,000 Russian troops crossed the river into the city from 9/12/42 - 11/19/42. Most of the Russian troops defending the city were fresh, adequately armed, supurbly entrenched, and defending their land. The German troops were veterans stuck in a war of attrition, knew they were the aggressor, and were in for a 2nd winter.

You have to remember that Germany was still fighting with one arm tied behind it's back pre-Stalingrad, because Hitler was wary of public support. Stalin had no such worries, & gave it his all.

Mid September was very touch & go for the Russians in Stalingrad, but after that, arms, equipment & men started flooding in. No miracle.
 
I think Goering also had a hand in convincing Hitler not to permit Paulus to break out. If that blowhard Goering hadn't promised that the Germans encircled at Stalingrad could be supplied from the air (a boast that was 90% untrue, only 10 % of the necessary supplies ever got through by air) even that dolt Hitler might have seen the light and pulled out. But Hitler listened to Goering against the advice of most of his General Staff (including Guderian), and it cost those men their lives. This was the second time I'm aware of when that bloated oaf Goering stuck his two cents into a primarily ground force issue (the other time being finishing off the BEF at Dunkirk) to the cost of Germany. I am thankful Hitler didn't seem to learn from his mistakes.
 
I think Goering also had a hand in convincing Hitler not to permit Paulus to break out. .

Very true. Adolf really bungled 1942 in so many ways. Actually, he really bungled everything militarily. Norway was fools luck.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top