Just wondering about Knights in Sky.. (1 Viewer)

[maddadicus]

As most of you know, I have made for me 1/30 scale wooden bombers..Always thought that the JJ planes would make a good complement to that collection. BBBUUTTT, a few months ago, I bought a camel from Aikens. It came through with wing warping, with top and bottom sagging downward. Looks like crap and was wondering if this was just a defect or a regular problem with the models? Michael

 

[lancer]

As most of you know, I have made for me 1/30 scale wooden bombers..Always thought that the JJ planes would make a good complement to that collection. BBBUUTTT, a few months ago, I bought a camel from Aikens. It came through with wing warping, with top and bottom sagging downward. Looks like crap and was wondering if this was just a defect or a regular problem with the models? Michael

Michael, I have seen photos of some Camels that came with warped wings. It must be a defect, probably with the compression within the packaging. I have 4 Camels and all are fine. The Camel should have a straight upper wing when looking front edge on, with the bottom wings canted slightly upward, starting at the fuselage and rising slightly to the ends. All that said, I have had to return two damaged aircraft over the years, a Nieuport and an Albatros, both which came with warped upper wings. I believe both were damaged because of the compression caused by the packaging, and I believe the vee-strut configuration MAY have made these particular models vulnerable to warpage, but the 3 Nieuports and 2 Albatros I do currently have are fine. I can't believe defective models would get past quality control at the factories so my belief is the damage is occurring while in transit, either with too tight packaging or possible weight transferred from other packages the models are shipped with. -- Al

 

[lenswerks]

This is photo of ACE-014 Camel with warped and downward pointing lower wing at ends.

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?12216-A-Few-Photos

Not sure when released but I just purchased a few days ago.

 

[Vicknor]

I'm guessing that Aikens is a shop/supplier?

Obvious solution is to return the piece as this sounds like a compressed storahge/post-factory problem. Quite sure your consumer rights are covered same as buying clothing that have stretch/warp issues.

 

[ivanmoe]

As most of you know, I have made for me 1/30 scale wooden bombers..Always thought that the JJ planes would make a good complement to that collection. BBBUUTTT, a few months ago, I bought a camel from Aikens. It came through with wing warping, with top and bottom sagging downward. Looks like crap and was wondering if this was just a defect or a regular problem with the models? Michael

Michael, I think that this is a problem with the Barker camel. It was the last of the camels that I purchased, and went on a stand and into a curio when it arrived. The first I noticed of the warping was in some pics that I took for the KotS thread, ones that I took of my "Camel Base." I commented on the disfigured wing surfaces in that same post/thread. I'd quote myself, but I'm too lazy to look it up.:redface2:

I believe that warping in a resin part like this is caused by a defect in the resin itself or because of mishandling while the part was curing. I've had a problem with warping on one other model, the Lowenhardt Albatros. I suspect that Al's problem D.III was the same version. This certainly suggests that there are a couple of "problem children" in JJ's earlier models, but it also suggests that the newer models are sound in this regard.

Contact Aikens. If they don't make it right, I'm certain that Jenkins will.

-Moe

Edit: Looked it up. I describe the issue in post 1084 and 1086 on the KotS thread. Sorry if I didn't make more of it than I did. Didn't mean to let anyone down.

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?27329-Knights-of-the-Sky&p=735218#post735218

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?27329-Knights-of-the-Sky&p=735223#post735223

 

[lancer]

Moe, the warpage problem I had with the Albatros was, indeed, the Lowenhardt version, but I am convinced it was compression damage from the packaging as the vee-struts were twisted and bent, along with the deformed upper wing. I can't remember which Nieuport I had a problem with, but I believe it was the first one, the Bishop N-17, and I believe it was also compression damage. I have never had a problem with any other JJD model. The Spads are as sturdy as they look and even the triplanes are strong models. -- Al

 

[ivanmoe]

Moe, the warpage problem I had with the Albatros was, indeed, the Lowenhardt version, but I am convinced it was compression damage from the packaging as the vee-struts were twisted and bent, along with the deformed upper wing. I can't remember which Nieuport I had a problem with, but I believe it was the first one, the Bishop N-17, and I believe it was also compression damage. I have never had a problem with any other JJD model. The Spads are as sturdy as they look and even the triplanes are strong models. -- Al

Hi Al,

I've never seen deformation in the struts, which could indicate problems with the packaging. However, I think that likewise points to problems with the resin. Post-manufacture, the material should remain stable/rigid. Properly cured, I don't believe that it becomes malleable again unless it's heated-up. That would suggest that the struts in question should break before they bend. Of course, this is just speculation on my part. The important thing is that Michael get a proper replacement for what sounds like something of a dud. Really like the paint and markings on the Barker Camel, BTW.

-Moe

 

[ivanmoe]

This is photo of ACE-014 Camel with warped and downward pointing lower wing at ends.

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?12216-A-Few-Photos

Not sure when released but I just purchased a few days ago.

Hi lenswork,

Do you have a pic from the front of the model?

-Moe

 

[lenswerks]

 

[ivanmoe]

View attachment 201312

View attachment 201313

First, thank you for posting those two pics. It's good that we have a reference image to talk about.

I certainly can't speak for Michael, but I suspect that the bowing on his Barker Camel is somewhat worse than yours.

Are you familiar with the other two camels that Jenkins made? As I mentioned in another thread, the wings are different on those two. Here's a pic of my "MacLaren" version:

View attachment 201314

It's important to note that the pic above is somewhat distorted by the wide angle lens that I used. The top wing is actually quite strait/flat on the model. Note the lack of downward bowing on the lower wing. All in all, this looks to be better rendered than the Barker version. The Brown version is more or less identical to the MacLaren version in it's shape. Here's a pic of my "Brown" from another thread:

Again, note the lack of downward bowing on the lower wing (in particular). I really do suspect that the wing on the Barker camel is a completely different part than that found on Brown or MacLaren.

-Moe

 

[lenswerks]

 

[lancer]

Very interesting, these Camel comparisons. I can't speak to the MacLaren Camel at present because mine is in storage but I do have the Brown, Barker, and Naval 10 Camels out. They all have straight upper wings when looking head on, as they should. None of the Camels exhibit the droop on the lower wings that is being discussed but the MacLaren and Naval 10 Camels have straight lower wings, without the slight upward cant that should be there. This results in a somewhat incorrect head-on silhouette. The Brown Camel is the most nearly correct with a very slight upward cant to the lower wings. Also, the Naval 10 Camel, which is a one-of experimental model, has lower wings made of a different (and rejected) material than the mainstream Camels. I don't draw any conclusions other than it seems evident that the Barker Camel is somewhat different than the other Camels in head-on silhouette, for whatever reasons, and seems to be more often afflicted with a lower wing difference. -- Al

 

[maddadicus]

Very interesting, these Camel comparisons. I can't speak to the MacLaren Camel at present because mine is in storage but I do have the Brown, Barker, and Naval 10 Camels out. They all have straight upper wings when looking head on, as they should. None of the Camels exhibit the droop on the lower wings that is being discussed but the MacLaren and Naval 10 Camels have straight lower wings, without the slight upward cant that should be there. This results in a somewhat incorrect head-on silhouette. The Brown Camel is the most nearly correct with a very slight upward cant to the lower wings. Also, the Naval 10 Camel, which is a one-of experimental model, has lower wings made of a different (and rejected) material than the mainstream Camels. I don't draw any conclusions other than it seems evident that the Barker Camel is somewhat different than the other Camels in head-on silhouette, for whatever reasons, and seems to be more often afflicted with a lower wing difference. -- Al

Mine is bowed like the one shown earlier..Worse drooping on lower wing..Michael

 

[ivanmoe]

Mine is bowed like the one shown earlier..Worse drooping on lower wing..Michael

PM'd you Michael.

-Moe