King and Country repaints and product volume. Good or bad? (1 Viewer)

[Eazy]

I've been reading the various threads and opinions on the direction K&C is headed with interest and thought i'd add in my two cents.

This is an interesting topic. I kind of see where the posters who are criticing the repaints and market flooding are coming from. I imagine that a lot if not most of the people who are K&C fans and collectors are also collectors of FOV.

To improve K&C sales you need to attract the people who are just buying FOV.

How you do that is the big question. I still collect FOV vehicles as i think they are an excellent product for the price. You can pick them up and examine them and roll them and generally handle them without fear of damaging them. A K&C vehicle is mainly going to sit on the shelf or display cabinet and just be looked at and admired from afar.

I started off in this scale a couple of years ago with the first FOV releases in 2003 and graduated to K&C this year when i could resist their quality no longer.

I remeber a post from Andy earlier this year when the subject of FOV was addressed. I can't find the post now but i'm sure he said that endless repaints were not the way to go and pointed to the fact that FOV tanks fetch very little on ebay.

Now we find that K&C is going heavily down the repaint path. I have to put my hands up and plead guilty to falling for it. I bought the limited Stug and i've preordered the British Sherman ( only cause i'm a Brit and don't have the US one) and the Winter Tiger ( cause it's a thing of beauty). I will not be buying the US stug though. Not at this price. If Unimax produced a US stug for $30 or less then that would be a novelty but a 3rd issue K&C US stug does not scream out Must Buy to me.

To my mind increasing output to the point we are at the moment is not necessarily the way to go. Spending $500 dollars every month or so just to keep up with the new releases doesn't seem to make sense. You are just appealing to the die hard collectors with deep pockets. That is not going to attract new blood as they are going to be put off by the huge size of the range. Choice is good but to much choice can be off putting. I usually buy one or maybe two pieces of K&C a month and to be honest i'm bewildered by what to buy as there is so much good stuff.

Surely then if you are going to increase supply you really have to decrease the price if you want to appeal to a wider market.

 

[VIRIATO]

Hi Eazy,
These are good points. FOV definitely has quality and a better price, although I think their tanks are not as solid as K&C'S and will not stand the test of time as well as K&C'S. There are also Minichamps and 21st on the market, the first with top quality and high prices, the second with quality comparable to FOV ( to close the gap I guess they need more weathering and dump the rubber tracks ). But then there is scale and the figures that come with the tanks. K&C'S figures coming with the tanks are light years away from their competition. And if I want a tank to mix with K&C soldiers ( 1/30 ) it'll have to be ... 1/30 ( K&C alone, for the moment ), visibly bigger than the others. So when I get FOV or Minichamps I picture them with Conte or Britains.
There are some tough choices to be made along the way, I tend to buy what I like best from any company, along WWII battle fronts, so a lot of K&C will be left behind. But then different people choose different things and it's great to have a range of choices as K&C has, so please keep it up. Maybe new releases could just give us more time to breathe, after all I'd like to be collecting for the next 40 years! Hey, but who am I to tell Andy how to run his business, such a wonderful success story!

Happy collecting,
Paulo

 

[Eazy]

It's interesting you mention Minichamps tanks. I feel if they were weathered and not factory fresh they would be superior to K&C vehicles. Now if Minichamps and K&C figures were compatible that would be something. You can also get Minichamps tanks far cheaper than K&C if you shop around.

I agree that FOV and K&C are not directly compatible but i'm sure they share a common collector base. I'm not really trying to criticize the way K&C do business as i have no idea how such a business works. I just feel a bit overwhelmed by the current glut of new product and repaints.

 

[jazzeum]

A couple of points on repaints and new products. I think if you saw the American Stug, which I had the chance to do in Chicago, you might think differently. It's quite a neat looking tank. I think the British Sherman is a special situation and it's not technically a repaint. Heck, I'll probably get it.

Regarding product. Yes, there is a lot out there now. I'd rather have the choice of too much rather than too little. If it's any consolation, I think after the BoB Americans come out that's it for the rest of the year on World War II. Whew! Then it will be time to save up for the new Afrika Korps (January) and 8th Army (March).

 

[johngambale]

Hello Again Guys! I must say in all Honesty, not kissing Butt; that I'm Impressed with the WINTER Sets! I also, would like to See these Following sets; ( Repainted in Winter)- WS-48---WS49--WS50--WS51)! Also, I would like to suggest a (Mortar Team), and( MG Team ) in Winter Colors! These sets would enhance my Infantry Collecting Sets! NOW, speaking about the FOV Vehicles, and some 21st Century Vehicles, and Minichamps Vehicles; First of All, I want to continue Collecting ONLY 1/30th Scale! These other Toy Companies, have No-Intentions, to make their Vehicles in the 1/30th Scale Size! So, I say may the Force be with Andy, and hopefully, he continues with the 1/30th Scale size, in ALL of his WW2 Sets! Thankyou, Johngambale! HEY'You Talkin to me!

 

[bsager]

I have seen so many posts on the Forum by many different people asking for their favorite items to be made and it makes me think that maybe Andy is trying to up the production to help fill the want lists. If I owned K&C I think I would do the same thing. Who in their right mind would not increase the production when your riding the wave and capitalize on the market. You never know what the future brings.

As for the repaints I think that this year Andy was testing the waters for his Limited Edition items and it seems to be a success. I think I read on another post that the future Limited Edition pieces would be new pieces and not repaints.

Bill Sager

 

[binder001]

johngambale has a good point on scales. I have a number of vehicles from various sources. FoV can be displayed near K&C and look "adequate". Britains are larger than "classic" 1/32, but their detailing and painting are no where near the effort that Andy gives us. I don't buy any Minichamps as their stuff is more like 1/35th, and if I want that scale I'll build my own from plastic or resin kits. So, that leaves K&C doing 1/30th stuff for now, I don't mind if Andy does repaints once in a while. I admire it when he can do some modifications for a re-release, such as the major modifications on the "US" StuG. That's a very impressive effort, and such an obscure subject.

I guess I'll continue to collect both 1/30 and 1/32, so I can display the appropriate figures with the appropriate sized tanks.

Gary

 

[Fullyautomatic]

One thing that stuck out during Andy's talk at OTSN was that no matter how many requests for an item he gets if he doesn't like that particular tank or vehicle,it won't be produced!!! Advantage of owning the company....

 

[wellington]

Guys I'm not a collector of WW2 stuff although I wish I was at times but I think you guys are missing the point. I think what Andy is doing is great when it comes to repainted tanks. First off, and this is nothing new, tanks such as the Sherman were used by several nations all of which had their own paint schemes. Tanks such as the stug are great with different paint schemes for different times of the year, locations and units if you are interrested in creating accurate dioramas or even truly representing WW2 vehicles.
The point I'm trying to make is this... why do we buy K & C, first off the quality and the RANGE, secondly because Andy does his research then accuratley REPRODUCES a piece. You have all said that Andy has a passion for this stuff, perhaps his passion, and I'm sure it is, is to reproduce ALL WW2 VEHICLES in all of their true complete forms from all sides of the globe and all nations. If I were collecting these tanks I would be truly happy with the fact that Andy has enough passion to want to do this rather than making 1 TYPICAL represented tank sticking it on the market then continuing on to bigger and better things. I don't know about you but I want my collection to tell an accurate and FULL story and I think by having this variety it fills my expectations. On the other hand repainting figures I cannot agree with... tanks and vehicles are truly the same with different paint schemes and are expected in my mind to be represented as such....BUT when in life do we see the exact same guy in a different unit in the exact same pose ie. the napoleonics limited edition dragoon series. To me this is silly and I feel that if we were going to represent the 4th Dragoon Reg. they should have been of different figures..From this stand point I wish I had the tank problem!!!
I agree with Brad 100% better variety than wishing we had more..besides lets face it the range would be really really boring if Andy just made one of each vehicle turning a blind eye to all other historical evidence to the contrary!!!!!

Cheers
Wellington

 

[sceic2]

Once again I will point out that it is a matter of supply and demand. A company will continue to supply product (except in unusual situations) as long as the demand for that product provides sufficient profit to make the business a going concern. If K&C decided to make all repaints and reissues, and if the customers continue to purchase them, and if the money earned is sufficient enough to make a good and reasonable profit - then the repaints and the reissues will continue. It is all a matter of free will. We consumers are free to make our purchase decisions independent of other factors (as long as it is discressionary spending).

We should remember that the members of this forum, and this discussion, are a very small minority of the consumers purchasing K&C products. While we are vocal (an assumption that I am making) in our choices, the real voices are in the market place. Class dismissed.

 

[King's Man]

When it comes to reissuing Napoleonic and American Revolution figures I’m all for it. Sometimes all it takes to make another regiment or country’s troops is to change the color of the coats and their lapels.

This is only possible if indeed the base uniforms are the same. While the American troops and British troops of the American Revolution uniforms can easily be repainted. French troops of the American Revolution should not be repainted from that same uniform because the French troops had a uniform of a different cut, one with a stand up collar.

While repaints are not as good as original new figures they do allow for more poses to be available.

I have often thought about repainting some of the figures myself just so I could represent a different country or regiment. The new Old Guard figures would repaint very nicely into troops from the Kingdom of Italy. The possibilities are really endless.

After sayings all this there is nothing as sweet as a brand new King and Country figure.

King's Man

 

[Steven Chong]

Once again I will point out that it is a matter of supply and demand. A company will continue to supply product (except in unusual situations) as long as the demand for that product provides sufficient profit to make the business a going concern. If K&C decided to make all repaints and reissues, and if the customers continue to purchase them, and if the money earned is sufficient enough to make a good and reasonable profit - then the repaints and the reissues will continue. It is all a matter of free will. We consumers are free to make our purchase decisions independent of other factors (as long as it is discressionary spending).

In addition to what Michael has repeatedly pointed out, forum members need to remember that Andy is managing a business -- he touched upon this point during his talk at the Chicago Show and in several replies on this forum. Repaints and reissues allows K&C to use existing castings and sculptures to make more products without the initial development cost. This should enable K&C to make a larger profit on these repaints and reissues, giving it the capital to produce a greater variety of new sets, and to take a risk and do obscure themes like the new Fields of Battle. If collectors refused to buy repaints and reissues, K&C would not produce them. However, there obviously is a demand for everything K&C repaints and reissues.

 

[jazzeum]

Steven raises a good point. Any business needs to bring income in certain guaranteed areas so that they can take risks elsewhere. Without the solid base of guaranteed dollars or euros, it will be hard to expand the creative base and grow the business. This is what Andy is doing and if that's the price, that's one I'm willing to pay. But he also needs support in those speculative areas that he experiments in and it's up to hard core like us to support him in those ventures, both financially (and emotionally) to the best of our abilities.