Lions lead by Donkeys (2 Viewers)

[damian]

This was one of the first books I read on WWI. Another good book from about the same era is Dixon's "On the Psychology of Military Incompetence". At school we read the War poems of Sassoon and Rupert Brooke. So I grew up believing all the WWI generals were blood thirsty idiots who butchered a generation. Now I realize this view point is being reconsidered by current historians. They feel we are turning the soldiers of WWI into passive victims. They saw themselves as great heroes who had defeated tyranny. The debate rages on. A few years ago the House of Commons granted amnesty to those who had been shot for cowardice in WWI. Their names can now be inscribed upon the war memorials that dot Britain and her former dominions. There is another source for the feeling of antipathy towards those who commanded in the War. It is probably one of the classics of graphic novels of all time. It was published in a magazine called Battle which was published from about 1975-1985. It was written by Pat Mills who went on to help created Judge Dredd and the artist was Joe Colquhoun. It was called Charleys War. It was great and it has been republished in hardcover by Titan books.
Here are some images. What historian can ever redeem Haig and his comand after Pat Mills and Joe Colquhoun had doen Charley's war.

 

[damian]

The Generals are planning the Third Battle of Ypres. According to Mills and Coloquhoun they looklike they are wading knee deep in blood.

 

[damian]

A German pilot is forced toland behind British lines. He has just been strafing a column of infantry and many have been killed. He is obviously an upper class offier.He demands to be taking into captivity as a POW. Grogan stabs him to death in a fit of rage. Charley says now that is murder Grogan. Grogan replies "strafing us is not murder, making us go over the top is not murder , but stabbing him is murder. Echoes of another line. "Accusing anyone of murder out here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500."

 

[damian]

The young nurse asks "How much longer can this madness last?" Charley is an unknown soldier. As the hospital train pulls out with the butchered and maimed a fresh column of cannon fodder marches into the station.

 

[damian]

Eric Bogle's "Green Fields of France" has been recorded by many disparate artists from folk divas like June Tabor to Irish rebels like the Pogues. I have tried to recreate the scene depicted with toy soldiers. A bus of young soldiers on its way to the Front passes a dressing station.

 

[damian]

I note with interest that in a frame in Charley's War there is a list of all the Dominions fighting with Britain at the Somme. SOuth Africa is not listed. At the time mid 1970's with apartheid at its peak even a comic could not acknowledge South Africa's contribution. Thankfully we now have democracy and can now resume our place in the community of nations.
The cigarrte box in the picture was sent by General SMuts to all SOuth African troops in 1916. This however did not include the men of the Native Labour Battalion who volunteered to leave their homes and travle across the ocean to do heavy labour in France. These men were all Black South Africans and only now is their contribution being acknowledged in South Africa

 

[Wraith]

Wow! That's a blast from the past. I used to have 'Battle' reserved every week at the Newsagents. Charlies War was one of my favourite storylines, along with Johnny Red.

They also did a series covering the Falklands War, which was fascinating for a young (ish) whippersnapper such as myself. I got to watch the what was happening on the TV News, as well as reading about it in my comic.

Thanks for the memories Damian.

Simon

 

[damian]

We need to get Titan to publish Johnny Red. That was a really good series as well. I cannot believe that they have not kept the original artwork. I think a lot of the republished strips were reproduced off old copies of Battle. At least 2000 AD seems to have kept most of the original artwork from Judge Dredd and Slaine etc

 

[Louis Badolato]

I've always wondered how historians manage to reconsider events after everyone involved is dead. At the time, and shortly thereafter, the consensus of the people involved was that the generals on both sides of WWI were a bunch of older men, raised in the pre-machine gun era, who just didn't adjust to modern warfare, with ther result being a generation virtually wiped out. I have been to England, France, Belgium and Germany, and I have seen the war memorials listing the Honored Dead from WWI in virtually every village, so clearly the young men of that generation died. How can a historian now explain that away? If men are placed under your command, they faithfully follow your orders and end up all dead, you are an incompetent general. End of inquiry.

 

[damian]

I've always wondered how historians manage to reconsider events after everyone involved is dead. At the time, and shortly thereafter, the consensus of the people involved was that the generals on both sides of WWI were a bunch of older men, raised in the pre-machine gun era, who just didn't adjust to modern warfare, with ther result being a generation virtually wiped out. I have been to England, France, Belgium and Germany, and I have seen the war memorials listing the Honored Dead from WWI in virtually every village, so clearly the young men of that generation died. How can a historian now explain that away? If men are placed under your command, they faithfully follow your orders and end up all dead, you are an incompetent general. End of inquiry.

I agree entirely

 

[4th Hussar]

I've always wondered how historians manage to reconsider events after everyone involved is dead. At the time, and shortly thereafter, the consensus of the people involved was that the generals on both sides of WWI were a bunch of older men, raised in the pre-machine gun era, who just didn't adjust to modern warfare, with ther result being a generation virtually wiped out. I have been to England, France, Belgium and Germany, and I have seen the war memorials listing the Honored Dead from WWI in virtually every village, so clearly the young men of that generation died. How can a historian now explain that away? If men are placed under your command, they faithfully follow your orders and end up all dead, you are an incompetent general. End of inquiry.

Keep in mind that in WW1 seniority still was factored into promotion and senior officers seemed to be able to serve as long as they were capable of exhaling. From my readings I am constantly amazed at the number of cavalry regiments that spent the entire war waiting for a break in the lines. Not sure how they thought they were going to get horses through the trenches and across no man's land. Hopefully WW1's mistakes are never repeated

 

[Gazza]

Damian

Charley's Wars is great; read it as a kid and now bought all the albums again; read the last one on Xmas Day before lunch !!!

Cheers

This was one of the first books I read on WWI. Another good book from about the same era is Dixon's "On the Psychology of Military Incompetence". At school we read the War poems of Sassoon and Rupert Brooke. So I grew up believing all the WWI generals were blood thirsty idiots who butchered a generation. Now I realize this view point is being reconsidered by current historians. They feel we are turning the soldiers of WWI into passive victims. They saw themselves as great heroes who had defeated tyranny. The debate rages on. A few years ago the House of Commons granted amnesty to those who had been shot for cowardice in WWI. Their names can now be inscribed upon the war memorials that dot Britain and her former dominions. There is another source for the feeling of antipathy towards those who commanded in the War. It is probably one of the classics of graphic novels of all time. It was published in a magazine called Battle which was published from about 1975-1985. It was written by Pat Mills who went on to help created Judge Dredd and the artist was Joe Colquhoun. It was called Charleys War. It was great and it has been republished in hardcover by Titan books.
Here are some images. What historian can ever redeem Haig and his comand after Pat Mills and Joe Colquhoun had doen Charley's war.

 

[Wraith]

Damian

Charley's Wars is great; read it as a kid and now bought all the albums again; read the last one on Xmas Day before lunch !!!

Cheers

Gazza,

Have they been released as an album recently?

 

[steveo]

Hope you don't mind me butting in the Charleys war is available in 5 hardback collections,try Amazon they are £8.99 a volume, i forgot how detailed the artwork is and how much anti war Charleys war actually is, truly excellent!
Has anybody else purchased the different bound collections of Commando,Battle Picture Library,Aces high or War picture library?Totally gungho and over the top,but still a good read but completely different to charleys war .
I cant believe they still are printing Commando,it must still sell i have heard it sells well in Finland,when translated!
I used to like Battle,although "union jack jackson" sticks out in Warlord,happy days
some links if anybody wants them
http://charleyswar.tripod.com/
http://www.commandomag.com
http://www.britishcomics.20m.com/pocket.htm
http://www.commandocomics.co.uk/
regards Steve

 

[Wraith]

Thanks Steve,

I think I'll be getting a few of these.

Simon

 

[Rob]

Hope you don't mind me butting in the Charleys war is available in 5 hardback collections,try Amazon they are £8.99 a volume, i forgot how detailed the artwork is and how much anti war Charleys war actually is, truly excellent!
Has anybody else purchased the different bound collections of Commando,Battle Picture Library,Aces high or War picture library?Totally gungho and over the top,but still a good read but completely different to charleys war .
I cant believe they still are printing Commando,it must still sell i have heard it sells well in Finland,when translated!
I used to like Battle,although "union jack jackson" sticks out in Warlord,happy days
some links if anybody wants them
http://charleyswar.tripod.com/
http://www.commandomag.com
http://www.britishcomics.20m.com/pocket.htm
http://www.commandocomics.co.uk/
regards Steve

Hey Steve,

I only have one of the Charley's War hardbacks and its very good.However i have all of the Commando,War and Battle picture Library collections.I just love these books as they were such a feature of my childhood.I have the next War picture Library collection on pre order,'Up and at em'! comes out on 6th April.

And yes i remember 'Union Jack Jackson'.....happy days

Thanks for the Links.Last year my wife got me Commando t-shirts and a mug,i think i'm still seven years old!

Rob

 

[Gazza]

Simon - I think the other guys beat me to it. I have all 5 albums they are really good - art work, stories and they have good background information.

I was bought "Battle Picture Library - Let 'em Have It" for Xmas - huge thing. I remember loving reading these, Battle, Commando and the Victor as a kid.

What was interesting was reading the above as an adult - the stories read so differently than when I was a kid. (where as Charley's war was just how I remember it)

Most stories were about someone hiding a failing in battle but then making the ultimate sacrifice to redeem themselves. The morales, justice, honour and a code etc are pretty strong - wondor how much that influenced me in life....LOL

 

[Wraith]

Simon - I think the other guys beat me to it. I have all 5 albums they are really good - art work, stories and they have good background information.

I was bought "Battle Picture Library - Let 'em Have It" for Xmas - huge thing. I remember loving reading these, Battle, Commando and the Victor as a kid.

What was interesting was reading the above as an adult - the stories read so differently than when I was a kid. (where as Charley's war was just how I remember it)

Most stories were about someone hiding a failing in battle but then making the ultimate sacrifice to redeem themselves. The morales, justice, honour and a code etc are pretty strong - wondor how much that influenced me in life....LOL

Cheers Gazza,

I've not read any of these strips for many, many years, so it'll be interesting to see how they read from a grown up (in the loosest sense of the word ) perspective.

Simon

 

[Gazza]

The bit I have never understood is why - on the first day of the Somme with 60,000 casualties - someone, somewhere did not stop it. I know the politicians slowed the deployment of reinforcements.

This side of WWI I have never read; why the generals genuinely thought it would work. Anyone got any suggestions?

 

[lancer]

Gazza, one of the reasons for the Somme offensive was to relieve the pressure on the French defense of Verdun. The Somme assault needed to draw German resources away from Verdun and therefore could not just be stopped. The tactics used on the Somme were an evolving process that had not been perfected yet. The defensive weaponry still ruled the battlefield. The Generals were still learning the business of modern war and unfortunately the learning curve involved massive casualties. -- lancer