Making a Murderer-Documetary on NETFLIX (1 Viewer)

[hotel3alpha]

All,

Okay, I watched all 10 episodes and am just bewildered a bit. There is soooooo much muck in this case and soon many things that were mucked up, that I don't know if I am watching documentary or a true crime Jerry Springer show. I mean, either this dude is the unluckiest man in the world or somebody really, really, REALLY had it out for him.

I am truly stumped on this one. But, a couple of things come to mind:

-Yes, he is a weirdo and a hell raiser. I guess not much to do on a Salvage yard in Wiiiiiscoooonsin.

-Dude was innocent...said he was innocent...and pulled an 18 year stretch as a innocent man

-He was exonerated via DNA and the real guy gets locked up. t

- Law Enforcement has to eat crow (which tastes awful) and no amount of Tabasco sauce will make it go down better.

-He sues the County is expected to get around $36 Million in damages for his 18 years of lost life.

-He is hailed as a "Victim of the Justice System" and Legislation is presented (in his name-The Avery Bill) to compensate the wrongly accused.

Then....

-He is arrested for brutally killing Teresa Halbach the Auto-trader photographer and burning her remains in a burn pit behind his trailer.

-His special needs Nephew is arrested too for helping out and...

...they both get life in Prison after a seriously botched-corrupt-one sided investigation that is lead by a pain pill popping, sex addict District Attorney who wanted to take one of his girlfriends (who he plucked from the Abused Women Shelter) to the morgue on a date. YO!!!

Okay, so you do 18 years and never once buckle and stay true to your convictions that you are an innocent man AND proved your were right. Your hailed by the community for "taking one for the team" because you were wrongly convicted. You sue the county that put you there and they are getting to write you a check for $36 Million...no more Salvage yard for you! Basically, you got it made financially, you will be able to take care of your aging parents and most importantly your honor is intact by way of the truth. Then you throw it all away and murder a young innocent lady on your property, invite your special needs nephew over to participate and Oh! you tell everyone you know she coming to take pictures of a van you need to sell.

It just does not make any sense and this one does not smell right. Nope.

The thing that got me was there was NO blood found on the concrete in the garage where he supposedly killed her or transferred the body or dragged her or shot her or whatever! Now you all know that I am in the concrete business and I was aghast at this revelation. The DA said that the blood soaked through a crack and that is why it is not there...

C'MON man! Concrete is porous and if there was blood on the crete it would have soaked in. Getting any stain out of crete (let alone dried blood) is no easy task. But lets just say that they did clean it up, then there would have been a super shiny clean area of crete surrounded by an greasy dirty slab. I.E. wipe up marks. There were none. In addition, blood does not just evaporate and "poof" be gone. No, it is thick, sticky, slippery and turns almost black when it is dry. That is why bloody footprints are easy to detect on concrete under luminal lighting...because they STAIN.

But as always, I could be wrong.

John from Texas

 

[gk5717]

Just marathon watched this. Absolutely a must watch. My observations. Yes the part of finding no blood was strange. But pretty much after that no one offered any other scenerio on how or where she was killed. The part that completely changed my mind as to his guilt was the FBI guy who tested the blood and found it had no chemicals in it which meant it did not come from the evidence vile. The FBI WOULD NOT be part of a local conspirancy. At the end those bleeding heart lawyers trying to blame the judicial system made me gag.
Also Steve's main two trial attorneys, if they were so sure and concerned of his innocence why didn't they take his appeals pro bono (for free). No Avery ran out of his $400000 settlement, that's why.
One other comment which may not go over well is that whole Avery family looked to be sub human. I cringed every time I had to look at one of them. Whether you agree or not people like that just don't have the same values and are more than capable of doing crimes like this.
Not sure of Wisconsins laws but the half witted kid was 16 when he committed the crime, thus he was a juvenile and unless he was certified as an adult to stand trial don't know how he got that type of sentence.
At the end I do believed justice was served.
Gary

 

[hotel3alpha]

Gary,

Excellent points! Yes, I think the FBI involvement was a little over rated and blown out of proportion a bit by the defense. But, I did find it a bit strange that the FBI would spend time and resources on a State case versus a Federal Case. Also, I also find it an eye opener that the FBI does not have the technology to differentiate blood from blood preserving material. But who knows?

Now Gary, those "bleeding heart" lawyers did in fact prove some very good points and did in fact catch some law enforcement and country employees off guard with...the truth. Or at least he made them realize that the were not telling in the "whole" truth. So, we can't blame the attorney's for not doing their job and asking uncomfortable questions to get the truth because after all, "ye shall seek the truth and the truth shall set you free".

However, Gary I agree with you. The Avery Family is certainly a Motley Looking Crew. But, their looks are not on trail and I know that ALL of us have family that could be considered the "missing links" or neanderthals. I know I do! I prey that I am not judged by some of my cousins and distant family...GOOD LORD NO...as I would get the death penalty for just being related. Anyway, Gary, not everyone is handsome and pretty and sadly even in the documentary the county officials took a judgmental bias against them. In fact, they were down right ugly and unprofessional.

The kid? Good lord Gary, that kid reminded me of "The Deliverance" banjo playing kid. Remember him? Yeah, that's what the kid looked liked and you feel bad for him, but wonder...was he there or did he make it all up. Just don't know. But what I do know is that he is a special needs kid with below average intelligence and should have been treated as such. He was not, and it is a travesty to see the full weight of the government prosecute this 16 year old banjo kid with little or no understanding of what is actually happening. Terrible.

Overall, I have had some conversations today about this case and we brought up a couple of points, but the main point is this:

He called her to come there...she came there...she was killed there...somewhere...and she was found there...dead. So, somebody who lives there is responsible for her death.

John from Texas

 

[gk5717]

One other thing I found out researching this case that was not in the TV program. Avery's DNA was found inside the hood of the victims vehicle, not blood DNA but other DNA. Also recovered from Steves trailor were handcuffs and restraints.
Gary

 

[hotel3alpha]

One other thing I found out researching this case that was not in the TV program. Avery's DNA was found inside the hood of the victims vehicle, not blood DNA but other DNA. Also recovered from Steves trailor were handcuffs and restraints.
Gary

Gary,

Yes, yes, that just came out recently and changes the path of this case. I begin to wonder why a 10 part documentary mini-series would leave out such and important fact/clue. I am of the opinion if your going to throw it out there, then throw it ALL out there...not just tid bits. I fell the documentarians did us (the viewers) a disservice by not adding that crucial piece of evidence.

I would also like to have seen a Behavioral Profiler outline a profile of the killer. I know it is a bit overboard as SOMEBODY killed her on the Avery property, but it may have provided some interesting clues as to who did it. Lets put it this way, someone on that compound is responsible for her death and at this point Avery is "the guy" who makes the most sense. But, Law Enforcement should have investigated other suspects/persons of interest as thoroughly as they did Avery. That way they could have honestly ruled them out. That way there would be no "shadow of a doubt".

This case Gary, gets murkier and murkier and it just does not pass the smell test. I honestly don't know what to make of it other than both of those guys got life in prison for her murder. It is a terrible story and frankly I think at a minimum there should be a new trial in Federal Court because there was way to much proven misconduct by the Prosecution team that took the blind fold off of Lady Justice.

John from Texas

 

[Combat]

I haven't seen this particular show but have read about it in the press. My experience is that some people are "conspiracy" minded and willing to entertain all sorts of outlandish tales to confirm this bias. It is possible to conjure up some doubt about anything if you put your mind to it and are willing to allege that any evidence to the contrary is the product of a nefarious conspiracy. In effect it creates an impossible standard of proof. These same people often suggest that to rebut this possibility you must prove the negative with a hundred percent certainty to their subjective satisfaction. Something that can rarely occur in human affairs. We would effectively have to empty the jails if this approach were widely adopted. Have the police framed folks in history? Sure. Have some innocent people been sent to jail for crimes they didn't commit? Sure. But that doesn't mean it happened in this case.

 

[gk5717]

Combat stated it perfectly.
Did the police plant evidence? On the key I would have to say yes. But saying that why would an officer jepordize everything in regards to his career and even going to jail over this scum bag Avery, my opinion, not likely.
Also in regards to checking out other possible suspects. That would have been done if there was any substantial evidence to show that. All the evidence pointed to Steve so just because Steve says he didn't do it the investigating officers should now try to prove his innocence instead of his guilt?
I,ve also read and seen on the news petitions to free these two, come on, trials, appeals etc all upheld MURDER convictions so some signatures by people who watched a slanted story on TV should be reason to set these two free, not gonna happen. In two months this whole story will disappear.
Wish more people would watch this and get their take.
Gary

 

[hotel3alpha]

Gary,

Well said Gary and to Combat-well said as well! Yeah, the key was planted and I think it was done to just get it over with. I mean they were not searching a double wide after all, just a single wide. The bullet I think was planted too and like I said before, don't get me started on the whole concrete thing.

I think what is interesting is that we got to see the trial in this Documentary. We got to see questions, rebuttals, evidence and witnesses give testimony. That alone is a gives us a front seat to the case as a vicarious juror. We got to witness the goings on in this county and law enforcement department who is apart of it. We also got to see a community reaction to the murder and the community's view of the Avery Family. I think besides the case the film makers (though not perfect) gave us a birds eye view of how justice plays out in Manitowoc County, Wisconsin.

I too have read about the petitions and absolutely not would I support a petition like that. Nor is it going to get this Avery guy anything but notoriety. He won't be released by a petition nor will the President sign a pardon...hell no.

As far as conspiracies are concerned. The Defense has the solemn duty of defend their client and try and disprove anything that the Prosecution puts forth. A case is never a slam dunk and we would be enraged if we did not get a "fair and impartial trial". I think his Defense team did a good job of creating doubt and Prosecution did an okay job proving his guilt. I think the DA and country officials were way to emotional to be fair and impartial and that was proven in the documentary.

I remember meeting a guy who was found guilty of a crime and did time for it. After he was out, he ran into a juror at the store and simply asked him why they voted for conviction when everything pointed to his innocence. His response-"we were tired and wanted to go home".

Dayum,

John from Texas

PS: YES! I agree that we need more people to watch this series and weigh in on the case as it would be interesting to hear some points of view from our esteemed colleagues.

 

[Combat]

There are plenty of folks who are too poor to get proper legal representation. Some of those people no doubt end up going to prison even if they are innocent. The flip side is no better, however. Lots of guilty wealthy defendants can afford to hire legal teams that could raise doubt about whether the sun rises in the east. By the time they get done mixing up the facts and calling "expert" witnesses it's impossible for most average people to know up from down to reach any reasoned conclusion. It's disgusting. The kind of legal representation that was on display most famously in the OJ case. I occasionally read these sensational stories about the innocence project clearing some person. Not a peep though about what must be thousands of convicted criminals that they confirm did in fact commit the deed. I would offer anyone in jail a deal. They get one chance to clear themselves via whatever new DNA test they choose etc. If it turns out it shows they are innocent, they walk that day. If it shows they are guilty, a trap door opens and they fall into the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. I bet that would be a short line.

 

[hotel3alpha]

There are plenty of folks who are too poor to get proper legal representation. Some of those people no doubt end up going to prison even if they are innocent. The flip side is no better, however. Lots of guilty wealthy defendants can afford to hire legal teams that could raise doubt about whether the sun rises in the east. By the time they get done mixing up the facts and calling "expert" witnesses it's impossible for most average people to know up from down to reach any reasoned conclusion. It's disgusting. The kind of legal representation that was on display most famously in the OJ case. I occasionally read these sensational stories about the innocence project clearing some person. Not a peep though about what must be thousands of convicted criminals that they confirm did in fact commit the deed. I would offer anyone in jail a deal. They get one chance to clear themselves via whatever new DNA test they choose etc. If it turns out it shows they are innocent, they walk that day. If it shows they are guilty, a trap door opens and they fall into the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. I bet that would be a short line.

COMBAT!

Here, here! Brother you tell it like it is! I agree with you...especially since the "Affluenza Teen" here in Texas that has been in the news. C'mon man! Yes, the wealthy or famous have their own judicial process which is just weird to me. But, it does show how justice ain't so blind.

I really like your idea on the DNA testing freebee as that would really shut some lifers up. Now, the whole dumping in the Atlantic thing (to me) is a pretty expensive proposition, but I understand your angst.

John from Texas

 

[BLReed]

.........Wish more people would watch this and get their take.

Geeze, it's 10 hours. Is there one hour that summarizes it? I only watch television 3 or 4 hours a day.
I'm neither house bound or suffer from ED.

 

[gk5717]

I actually watched this series with my wife. We usually go to seperate tv's and watch our own brand of shows. But in the middle of this series she said something to the effect I think the cousin really did it. I had to remind her this is not "Perry Mason" or some fictional show. Those surprise twist and turns only happen on regular tv shows.
I have to say for a real documentory with no staged reenactments this thing kept me on the edge of my seat through out.
Gary

 

[hotel3alpha]

Geeze, it's 10 hours. Is there one hour that summarizes it? I only watch television 3 or 4 hours a day.
I'm neither house bound or suffer from ED.

BLREED,

Geeze...yes there is a summary. Contact the Filmmakers and ask them for the 1 hour BLReed Report and I am sure they will put you on the list of summary requests. I read that a lady in Australia contacted the county for a complete trial transcript at $1.25 a page. Apparently, her bill was $6,000 and she paid via CC. Looks like the Country Clerk is getting some extra cash for the coffers.

I have been house bound for a week due to a broken back and had the luxury to do a Documentary marathon. Normally, I would be slaving for 12 hours a day and catching a few minutes of each episode prior to hitting the sack. Now, your "suffer from ED" statement is a little confusing, but I assume your are talking about getting it up. Brother, I can tell you is that IF you had any doubts about the function of the junktion down here in south Texas you are gravely mistaken my friend.

Which brings up a point...this thread is a dialogue about this awkward case/interesting documentary and not about who is housebound or has ED. Again, assuming your are referring to only "ED" acronym I know of. Now back to the case/documentary and all I can you Sir is that it is worth a watch...that's it. If you wanna watch it, then have at. But like Gary said, there are so many twist and turns that it plays out like a drama, until you realize once again that this is a real courtroom and a real case.

John from Texas...
...who is housebound, but does not suffer from ED and if I did, I got plenty of pharmaceutical choices to over come it. Shall I name them? Or just watch the thousands of commercials on TV to get informed?

 

[The Military Workshop]

Not watched it yet but some might find this Daily Mail article interesting.


EXCLUSIVE - 'She’s the one that’s going to get him out': New hope for Making a Murderer's Steven Avery as hotshot Chicago lawyer agrees to fight for his freedom in case that has gripped the nation
Attorney Kathleen Zellner announced on Friday that she will assume full representation of Steven Avery's pending criminal matters
Zellner said in a statement that she will be assisted by the legal director of the Midwest Innocence Project
Earlier this week, one of Avery's former defense attorneys, Dean Strang, said there was a possibility he could represent Avery again
But plans seemed to have changed, with Zellner saying she will be taking 'full and complete representation' of Avery
Steven Avery's mother, Dolores, praised the Chicago-based lawyer
She said earlier that her son Steven Avery is absolutely innocent of murder of Teresa Halbach - and that his brothers are too


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-new-Chicago-based-lawyer.html#ixzz3wnslN59Z

 

[gk5717]

I'm pretty sure about this but all his appeals have been exhausted, there are no more. The only thing that could cause any change is some brand new concrete evidence that would prove his innocence. Like in his previous rape case where new dna evidence pointed to another person. Just because a relative proclaims his innocence or an attorney will take up his cause is not a reason for a new trial. There were many pieces of ****ing evidence against him brought out in the trial that was not brought out in the film that he won't be looking at prison from the outside ever.
Gary

 

[hotel3alpha]

Gary,

Yes all of his appeals at the State level are done for. They have all been overruled and stopped at the Wisconsin Supreme Court. They only way to get a new trial is go Federal and that will require the DOJ and FBI to find something wrong with the ethics of the case or police misconduct. Tough call for the Feds, but could be the only resolution. There may be some Feds who sick of hearing about it and may open a case on the case...as weird as that sounds.

Hopefully, some of our Barristers Brethren will watch the DOC and weigh in on this documentary. I leaning now towards guilty, but still believe the DA, cops and State Govt. went dirty on this one...real dirty.

John from Texas