Most effective weapons- American Revolution (1 Viewer)

[Currahee Chris]

Hey fellas:

I dabble a bit in reading on the AWI and understanding the campaigns and various personalities. One topic that seems to get scant attention during my readings are the weapons of the war. Anything notable that really stuck out as being somewhat decisive or was technology not really moving forward too quickly back then?

Would like to hear some thoughts on this.

Cheers
CC

 

[binder001]

I don't think that technology made much of a difference in the AWI. The rebels were basically equipped the same as the government troops. Later the French supplied many weapons, but agon, no big technical difference. The American use of the "Kentucky" long rifle is often cited, but they weren't a war-winning weapon. The long rifle's advantages were exploited on several occasions when a field commander knew how to maximize the advantages and minimize the riflemen's limitations. The British government forces obviously had the advantage of numbers, and training. The bayonet was a British advantage, but that wasn't technology but training and discipline. The British also had a real navy while the colonials had privateers and a few frigates. Again, that's not truly a technical advantage as the rebels had the same technology available but not the resources. There was an article in Naval History magazine that stated that the Royal Navy might be the arm of the British military that lost them the war - they had strength and numbers but their tactical employment did not maximize their advantages.

Gary B.

 

[trooper]

What could have become the most advanced weapon and have made a tremendous difference later on in the Napoleonic wars as well as the AWI was the Ferguson rifle. A breech loading rifle where the breech was lowered by means of a fast thread operated by rotating the trigger guard, the ball inserted to roll forward against the rifling, the charge poured in behind, breech closed, pan primed and ready. It gave rise to a rapid, accurate rate of fire, longer range and could be loaded from a prone position. Ferguson's unit was over run at King's Mountain and the design was never taken up by the British as they were comparatively expensive thus causing the Civil servants to opt for the cheaper Brown Bess already issued. If the entire British army had been thus armed during the Napoleonic Wars the entire history of the world would have been different today. Napoleon would have been defeated much earlier and who knows what differences that would have made? An entirely different Europe for a start. Trooper

 

[Currahee Chris]

But Trooper- where's the fun in that?? Why hurry up and get the war over?? ^&grin^&grin That's blasphemy to the Nap fans all around us!! ^&grin

 

[theBaron]

...The American use of the "Kentucky" long rifle is often cited, but they weren't a war-winning weapon...

Correct, but it was actually the Pennsylvania long rifle at that point.

Prost!
Brad (proud citizen of the Commonwealth of PA)

 

[Currahee Chris]

Correct, but it was actually the Pennsylvania long rifle at that point.

Prost!
Brad (proud citizen of the Commonwealth of PA)

Agreed

from another proud citizen of the CoPA

 

[Phantom Warrior]

The problem with the Furguson rifle was supply and cost. Production of the Brown Beass was 500 per month while the firms that made the Furguson were small specialized gunsmiths who could make the more technical rifle, but only at 20 per month. A Furguson also cost 4 times the cost of a Brown Bess. Of course, the Furguson could also fire 6+ rounds per minute as opposed to 2+ per minute for a well trained British soldier. If widely used in the ACW, it would have decimated infantry attacks on defensive positions and IMO made a Union invasion of the south much more difficult.

Terry

 

[Currahee Chris]

The problem with the Furguson rifle was supply and cost. Production of the Brown Beass was 500 per month while the firms that made the Furguson were small specialized gunsmiths who could make the more technical rifle, but only at 20 per month. A Furguson also cost 4 times the cost of a Brown Bess. Of course, the Furguson could also fire 6+ rounds per minute as opposed to 2+ per minute for a well trained British soldier. If widely used in the ACW, it would have decimated infantry attacks on defensive positions and IMO made a Union invasion of the south much more difficult.

Terry

Thanks to Terry and Gary B for their insights- curious Terry- weren't gatling guns used in the ACW and weren't they marginal in their success?? Just curious as I do not know much about weapons and tactics from this era.

Cheers
CC

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Thanks to Terry and Gary B for their insights- curious Terry- weren't gatling guns used in the ACW and weren't they marginal in their success?? Just curious as I do not know much about weapons and tactics from this era.

Cheers
CC

Their use in the Civil War was insignificant. There were fewer than 25 in service and something like half of them were on gunboats. I know of only a couple that got into land action around Petersburg although there probably a few others that saw action with Hancock's I Corps. The Gatlings had some technical problems with manufacturing tolerances, flimsy cartridges with a rough loading system, and overheating gun barrels if fired to long.

Terry

 

[Currahee Chris]

Their use in the Civil War was insignificant. There were fewer than 25 in service and something like half of them were on gunboats. I know of only a couple that got into land action around Petersburg although there probably a few others that saw action with Hancock's I Corps. The Gatlings had some technical problems with manufacturing tolerances, flimsy cartridges with a rough loading system, and overheating gun barrels if fired to long.

Terry

I see- thank you for the clarification- so based on this discussion, plus others posed here, it would appear as if the Ferguson rifle could have been a game changer IF it was able to be produced in significant quantities for massed volleys correct?? Any performance reports available out there- narratives from troopers who used them??? Were they prone to jamming/ misfires/ accuracy not as good as everyone thought?? Any first hand accounts of this rifle in action??

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I see- thank you for the clarification- so based on this discussion, plus others posed here, it would appear as if the Ferguson rifle could have been a game changer IF it was able to be produced in significant quantities for massed volleys correct?? Any performance reports available out there- narratives from troopers who used them??? Were they prone to jamming/ misfires/ accuracy not as good as everyone thought?? Any first hand accounts of this rifle in action??

There are some stories about fouling and inaccuracy after 2-3 shots and a reqirement to grease the screw every shot, but only unverified stories. Tests on the gun showed it could fire up to 60 shots before the screw needed greasing.

Imagine a regiment of trained soldiers behind a stone wall firing Fergusons at an attacking regiment in formation. At 8 shots per minute starting from an effective range of 300 yards and at 3 minutes to cover the ground, a Ferguson could get off 24 shots at the attackers. Even at 20% accuracy, each shooter would take out 4 - 5 attackers. A single regiment attacking an entreched regiment would hardly work. Imagine the Brits with them at Waterloo against the French columns.

But less than 100 Fergusons were made. If you find one ...

Terry

 

[Scott]

I knew a re-enactor that had a Ferguson rifle made for himself. His "lovely" wife thought that THAT was the last straw and left him. The man definitely got the better part of the deal as I had met his "lovely" wife before. (brrrrrrrr..) So yes, the Ferguson Rifle was effective in that case.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Cannons firing "Grapeshot" ... That would do the trick. Take out 8 or 10 men easy.

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Chris,

Good topic again! The Ferguson Rifle was a very interesting weapon, and there was an article discussing this piece and the Battle of Kings Mountain in a recent Military History Magazine. I think it was Military History but it could also have been the MHQ quarterly magazine as well. I am unsure. But there is a lot of uncertainty about this weapon being used at Kings Mountain. From what I have read the earliest use of the Ferguson rifle in the American Revolution by rifle men Major Ferguson personally trained was the Battle of Brandywine. He was wounded there and while he was recovering his Rifle Corps was disbanded and the weapons were put into Storage, from there the story on these weapons is cloudy to be sure. Most were probably destroyed but there are at least 5 of them in the states on display. West Point has 2 in its Arms collection and there is one in the National Museum in DC as well as one in Morristown NJ National Historic Park Museum, which may well be the most important one on display because it has PF marked on it as inspection letters and was likely personally inspected by Ferguson himself. Unfortunately this weapon was about 90 years ahead of its time and the rifles would not really come into their own until much further down the trail.

Dave