Need Advice on Ground Work (1 Viewer)

Larry Allen

Larry Allen

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
3,876
Without question, we have some of the best diorama "artist" in the world on this Forum. ...:salute:: They are spread out from Texas and the West Coast to New England; down under to Australia and New Zealand up to the Far East and over to Europe.

So to all of you .. My simple question is: ... Should ground work (or ground cover) be made a permanent part of the display or left adjustable? Mostly I am referring to the grass, dirt, sand, snow, forest debris, rubble and that type of material. :rolleyes2:

I am planning (and starting) three different dioramas. One is going to be large (4 feet X 16 feet) and "generally" not to movable. The others will be smaller (for now) but may become part of a larger display down the road. They "might" be enclosed some day, but not for a while.

On one hand I don't want to lock myself into a setting and have a lot of work tearing it apart should I change the design, but then I don't want to fear a windy day with an open window, a four footed creature being curious or one of my senior "clumsy" moments.

What are your thoughts? :confused: :rolleyes:

Thanks to all --- Larry
 
Larry Allen said:
Without question, we have some of the best diorama "artist" in the world on this Forum. ...:salute:: They are spread out from Texas and the West Coast to New England; down under to Australia and New Zealand up to the Far East and over to Europe.

So to all of you .. My simple question is: ... Should ground work (or ground cover) be made a permanent part of the display or left adjustable? Mostly I am referring to the grass, dirt, sand, snow, forest debris, rubble and that type of material. :rolleyes2:

I am planning (and starting) three different dioramas. One is going to be large (4 feet X 16 feet) and "generally" not to movable. The others will be smaller (for now) but may become part of a larger display down the road. They "might" be enclosed some day, but not for a while.

On one hand I don't want to lock myself into a setting and have a lot of work tearing it apart should I change the design, but then I don't want to fear a windy day with an open window, a four footed creature being curious or one of my senior "clumsy" moments.

What are your thoughts? :confused: :rolleyes:

Thanks to all --- Larry
Click to expand...

Larry...LARRY...LARRRRRRYYYYY!!!

Brother, figure out the motif...blood and guts...guts and glory...invasion...retreat...or God forbid DA JERMANS! Anywho, Pacific, Europe or what ever time frame, but I hear you on the ole ambidextrous diorama. I think if you got a good base or foundation you can build from there, but looking back at your post you want to build a 4 foot by 16 foot diorama? That is going to be HUGE!!! I mean that is a small side walk size!

I got to see this diorama when your done Larry! Please keep me posted.

John from Texas

PS: A material called skratchworks.com saved one of my architectural pieces I build for a pool builder and customer. Check it out!
 
Mornin' John,

Yep, 4 feet by 16 feet .. or 2 sheets of 3/4" plywood -- end to end. {sm2}
Maybe, one of the 16' edges will be against a wall, but I am pondering how easy it will be to access the back space during and after construction. :rolleyes2:

I am fast approaching 2000 K&C AWI figures and I have been planning this for a loooooong time.

I plan to break up that space in to 2' X 2" squares so .. if my math is correct .. that will be 16 sections. Each section will (hopefully) line up with the ones around them to form a continuous terrain. My idea that each of the 16 sections will depict some individual or unique event or scene, but overall will blend into the larger diorama on some level.

I already have the room set to go, the plywood installed on bases for storage underneath and the sheets of foam (for the diorama base) cut into the appropriate sized squares. (I am using the pink construction / insulation foam - each sheet 3" thick to give me a 6" total depth for deep ravines, gullies, and hills and such.)

Hence my previous questions about applying ground cover for a permanent cover or just sprinkle and shape. Remember that each 2' X 2' section will be built and worked on in my hobby room and then moved into the right space. (That way no construction mess in the "Man Cave")

I will certainly post pictures along the way if anyone is interested.

So my question still stands but I am leaning to a 80% permanent cover and then fill in around the figures as needed.

--- Larry
 
Hi Larry,

This is a tough one to answer and I don't think there are any clear cut solutions to your question. I believe it comes to down how often you think you will want to change your scenes around. If you think you will change your scenes often, then it might be best to put down a universal base, one that can used with almost any setting, like a grassy green base. This way it will be less work when you go to re-arrange things.

My advice would be to create a one-size fits all sort of base so that you lessen any future work you want to do. One that would give you flexibilty so that some pieces to your base could be switched out or moved around, etc.

I hope that makes sense.

Mark
 
Larry Allen said:
Mornin' John,

Yep, 4 feet by 16 feet .. or 2 sheets of 3/4" plywood -- end to end. {sm2}
Maybe, one of the 16' edges will be against a wall, but I am pondering how easy it will be to access the back space during and after construction. :rolleyes2:

I am fast approaching 2000 K&C AWI figures and I have been planning this for a loooooong time.

I plan to break up that space in to 2' X 2" squares so .. if my math is correct .. that will be 16 sections. Each section will (hopefully) line up with the ones around them to form a continuous terrain. My idea that each of the 16 sections will depict some individual or unique event or scene, but overall will blend into the larger diorama on some level.

I already have the room set to go, the plywood installed on bases for storage underneath and the sheets of foam (for the diorama base) cut into the appropriate sized squares. (I am using the pink construction / insulation foam - each sheet 3" thick to give me a 6" total depth for deep ravines, gullies, and hills and such.)

Hence my previous questions about applying ground cover for a permanent cover or just sprinkle and shape. Remember that each 2' X 2' section will be built and worked on in my hobby room and then moved into the right space. (That way no construction mess in the "Man Cave")

I will certainly post pictures along the way if anyone is interested.

So my question still stands but I am leaning to a 80% permanent cover and then fill in around the figures as needed.

--- Larry
Click to expand...

LARRY...LARRY....LAAAAARRRRYYY!!

Good Afternoon to you sir!!!

Okay I used the same pink insulation for my base on the Architectual Model and it worked great. When I had to do elevations and stair going down it was easy to cut. I used a styrofoam wire cutter and went through two of them as they suck. To make some blended edges I used a propane torch to melt it. It was cool and i wish I could post a pic, but the system won't let me!

Allright then, fast forward 50 years from now and my kids are looking at my diorama (which I have not built...it will be a HK harbor) and they are saying hmmmm how are we going to sell great grandpas master piece. Dunno does it come apart? Oooooh look, great grandpa John from Texas was so smart!!!! He made it in sections and we can sell a section at a time and make beaucoup bucks and retire in the Virgin Islands.

OR

We make this gigantic work of art (think Devils Mountain in Close encounters...in the living room) and our kids trying to sell our house (to retire in the Virgin Islands) and the prospective buyers saying to the Real Estate agent "So, does that uhhh little battle scene that takes up half the room come with house?" and the Realtor says "Why yes it does, but if you don't care for it we can have it removed"

REMOVED???? As we say in our graves tossing and turning!!!! That only means one thing...destruction of a work of art that you put a lot of love into and nobody care about except us on the forum.

So, my vote is sections with transitions between each one like a river, stream or trees or bluff. So, that if one day they are to be REMOVED you could have sections that look good standing alone or "Yes, you can buy the whole sidewalk diorama for $100,000K and the proceeds will go to kin who live i the Virgin Islands".

Just my thoughts señor. How the hell am I going to build a Hong Kong harbor with ships, sampans and my Streets of Old Hong Kong? Could not tell you...yet.

John from Texas
 
Well John, then it appears that we are ... sort of ... on the same page. I think that is a scary thing!!{sm2}

I can't take all the credit since that technique has been demonstrated by a few of the diorama builders here on the Forum and I have seen multiple dioramas that Nick Cameron at Crown Toy Soldiers has made www.crowntoysoldiers.com as well as George Guerriero at Minuteman Toy Soldiers www.mmtoysoldiders.com.

I also have a harbor / pier in the back of my mind as a stage for the Continental Marines to be duking it out with someone.

There are some great example of a large series of Rev War dioramas rather close. The Bunker Hill museum has a tremendous display of the battle, albeit in a much smaller scale. When I was there a short time ago I took some pictures for reference.

I can post if any interest???

No kids to fight over my display, but the Henry Knox Museum in Thomaston, Maine has approached me about possibly setting up something similar or possibly using their space. http://www.knoxmuseum.org/ Pretty sure that won't happen but never know.

--- Larry
 
REVWARBUFF said:
Hi Larry,

This is a tough one to answer and I don't think there are any clear cut solutions to your question. I believe it comes to down how often you think you will want to change your scenes around. If you think you will change your scenes often, then it might be best to put down a universal base, one that can used with almost any setting, like a grassy green base. This way it will be less work when you go to re-arrange things.

My advice would be to create a one-size fits all sort of base so that you lessen any future work you want to do. One that would give you flexibility so that some pieces to your base could be switched out or moved around, etc.

I hope that makes sense.

Mark
Click to expand...

Hey Mark, nice seeing you at the VF show.

Yup, no easy solution at this design stage, but I doubt (98% sure) that I will NOT change the structural layout of any of the 2' x 2' sections. I will have different troops marching up and down the same road or maybe occupying the same field or rushing over the same bridge ... but that is rather easy. So adding some additional ground cover or adding a stick or rock here or there is not an issue.

The reality is I doubt that I would ever really want to consider it done ... so I can keep on playing.{sm4}
--- Larry
 
Larry Allen said:
Well John, then it appears that we are ... sort of ... on the same page. I think that is a scary thing!!{sm2}

I can't take all the credit since that technique has been demonstrated by a few of the diorama builders here on the Forum and I have seen multiple dioramas that Nick Cameron at Crown Toy Soldiers has made www.crowntoysoldiers.com as well as George Guerriero at Minuteman Toy Soldiers www.mmtoysoldiders.com.

I also have a harbor / pier in the back of my mind as a stage for the Continental Marines to be duking it out with someone.

There are some great example of a large series of Rev War dioramas rather close. The Bunker Hill museum has a tremendous display of the battle, albeit in a much smaller scale. When I was there a short time ago I took some pictures for reference.

I can post if any interest???

No kids to fight over my display, but the Henry Knox Museum in Thomaston, Maine has approached me about possibly setting up something similar or possibly using their space. http://www.knoxmuseum.org/ Pretty sure that won't happen but never know.

--- Larry
Click to expand...

Larry...LArry....LARRRRYYYY!!!

I have not seen Mr. Nicks dioramas yet, but I do know this about Mr. Nick...he is a stand up guy who squared me away on some pieces. Spoke to George once, very nice and have not had the pleasure to see his dioramas. I think if you were to get an opportunity to showcase a historical diorama that you should take it and run with it.

In addition, there is no higher donation to the community than sharing your collection with the world. I recently went to the "Samurai" Exhibition at the McNay Museum here in San Antonio and it was absolutely stunning! But what was more impressive was the little note card below each piece that said "donated by" so and so. In other words, some collector, some where said (in the Grey Poupon voice) "yes, I will allow my collection to travel from Museum to Museum through out the world". Wow...what prestige...what class...what power. I don't think there is a higher honor or privilege than saying "I was commissioned to build this diorama and there it sits and whatcha ma call it museum". Wow man. I would love to have something of mine "on loan" with a little card at the bottom of saying "On Loan from the John from Texas family from Texas".

Larry please post away on pics and ideas and don't forget progress pics.

John from Texas
 
Hi Larry,
A really big project! Our recent experience in Brisbane (Oz) would agree with the 2 foot modules and your idea of 80 per cent fixed. Loose filler/ground cover is ideal for covering figure bases (retains capacity for flexible adaption) and the chequerboard lines that will naturally eventuate when you put the modules together. We have quite a lot of loose groundcover concealing bases on our WWI dioramas but we also have tailor-made perspex covers thanks to some generous funding - and that dramatically reduces the risk of damage from the natural environment (and 'curious' fingers). I just have trouble imagining how you would "cover" such a large diorama other than considering that to be the role of the room in which it is displayed. I wish you all the satisfaction and fun that such a large-scale project will provide and look forward to your progress photos. Bob
PS. also recommend the escalation of enjoyment that comes from sharing the project "hands-on" with a team of like-minded collectors.
 
MARCO55 ... YES! Those are the some of the dioramas that I mentioned. Thank you, Thank you! :salute::

I have seen the dioramas maybe 20x in my life and loved it each time I visited the museum with guests and friends.
Are they fantastic or what!!! The 360 degree painting on the upper walls of the rotunda show the views from the redoubt on that day. It gives you a totally different impression of what those patriots were seeing and facing as well as an increased appreciation of their courage .... as they were looking a walls of RED approaching.

The 1/72 diorama has thousands of figures as well as sequenced lighting and a track that highlights events on that day with a push of a button.
Although I hold little hope to achieve that level I have always wished to at least attempt it.

If anyone ever gets to Boston they have to make the Bunker Hill a stop on the tour.

NOTE: If you drive in; watch the parking as Boston cops are always looking to up there parking ticket quota!! ^&grin

Thanks Marco55 for taking the time to POST.

--- Larry
 
Fitzgibbon said:
Hi Larry,
A really big project! Our recent experience in Brisbane (Oz) would agree with the 2 foot modules and your idea of 80 per cent fixed. Loose filler/ground cover is ideal for covering figure bases (retains capacity for flexible adaption) and the chequerboard lines that will naturally eventuate when you put the modules together. We have quite a lot of loose groundcover concealing bases on our WWI dioramas but we also have tailor-made perspex covers thanks to some generous funding - and that dramatically reduces the risk of damage from the natural environment (and 'curious' fingers). I just have trouble imagining how you would "cover" such a large diorama other than considering that to be the role of the room in which it is displayed. I wish you all the satisfaction and fun that such a large-scale project will provide and look forward to your progress photos. Bob
PS. also recommend the escalation of enjoyment that comes from sharing the project "hands-on" with a team of like-minded collectors.
Click to expand...

Yes, a really big project but (as years of engineering taught me) break it into small pieces and it become very manageable.

I will admit that after viewing the WWI diorama and realizing the untold number of hours of work that you gents put in was a definite inspiration to get myself going. I must have studied that layout a dozen or more times to get some ideas.

I have little worry about four footed invaders (or tiny fingers) disturbing the display and "dust" should be at a minimum. Actually, since one side is near a window I do fret a bit about sun fading the figures so I am considering a glass filter at that end. I have looked at some options for Plexiglas or other similar enclosures but I have not moved on that yet.

YES, the room was my computer / engineering office for 38 years. Now that retirement has come and all that "STUFF" has gone it is now empty ..... giving me a approx. size of 17' X 12' to utilize.

Definitely will be posting along the way (possible for years ..{sm2}) on the progress. After all it will be about the journey and not "FINISHING"

Many Thanks folks,
--- Larry
 
Your welcome Larry.Looking forward to see your "labor of love"come to life.
Mark
 
The secret for me would be versatility as I know after a time I would be tied of seeing the same layout and also being restricted to the figures I could use due to the nature of the terrain. The base size sounds amazing, but I would like to be able to lay different mats over it from time to time to create desert, grass, water etc, so I guess the short answer is I would not fix any thing down. Progress photos would be great. Robin.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Community platform by XenForo® © 2010-2024 XenForo Ltd.
Back
Top