Need help identifying Aeroplane Casting (2 Viewers)

[mensaman]

Hello all toy aeroplane aficionados, I recently bought this old mould which has no markings whatsoever and I would be most grateful if anyone could identify the type. To me it looks similar to a Spitfire but I am hopeless when it comes to aviation stuff.

Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.



Picture showing mould with no Identifying Marks



Picture showing Aeroplane from the top



Picture showing Aeroplane from the bottom

I should add that the overall length is 2-3/8" (61mm) and the wing span about 2-3/4" (68mm)

Best regards. JP

 

[johnnybach]

I don't know is my answer JP - but one thing that crossed my mind is that during WW2, there were several companies that made small models to help aircraft spotters to be able to identify aircraft. Names like Comet seem to lurk at the back of my mind.

Could your mould be one of these - perhaps?

I know posters were made - like this;

and cards were issued - like this; - so maybe they turned it into a spitfire model??????? Any experts on these models out there????

 

[DMNamiot]

It certainly looks like one to me. I know my kid would just love to have it to play with too!

Dave

 

[kilted vampire]

It certainly looks like one to me. I know my kid would just love to have it to play with too!

Dave

I am sure the lead would be a great addition to his diet! Maybe cast in pewter. Seriously I am washing my hands a whole lot more when handling the "old-timers".

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi KV,

Thats always a great idea when you use a high lead alloy or just plain lead. The stuff is nasty and can certainly have an adverse effect on little kids. I am letting my oldest son have some figures we found here at a flea market they are 40mm 100 years war that are painted well and are cast in some sort of alloy but you can be sure that I have him storing them well out of reach of the 3 year old! Have you been casting at all? Hope all is well.

Dave

 

[mensaman]

Hello JB

Thanks very much for the photos - the mould I have is not very finely modeled but it does look very like the Spitfire drawing from above - although the casting does not have the tail wheel and engine exhausts modeled but I imagine these were painted on in production. I will bear in mind the name Comet and see if I can find anything related to them as a manufacturer …

Once again my grateful thanks. JP

Hello too Dave and Kilted Vampire - I was thinking of having a go at painting these but I agree they will probably look very nice in Pewter - I have a small amount left and might just give it a go - thank you both for your helpful comments. JP

 

[johnnybach]

Good idea - if not painting to do them in a non-lead material - but if you intend to paint some made from hi-lead alloy, (not for under 14's), they would probably look good in cammo colours - with D-Day yellow stripes? Maybe something like this one?

 

[mensaman]

Good idea - if not painting to do them in a non-lead material - but if you intend to paint some made from hi-lead alloy, (not for under 14's), they would probably look good in cammo colours - with D-Day yellow stripes? Maybe something like this one?

Hi again JB

Many thanks for that photo - I am not sure what I am going to do with these as yet - they are hardly suitable for my Toy Soldier Website! I think at this point I ought to try and dispel some of the myths surrounding the handling of lead - it is not as dangerous as one might suppose. My father was a compositor all his life and handled lead type every day from the age of fourteen until he retired and he passed on at the ripe old age of ninety four. It is not so much handling lead as ingesting fumes from a crucible or melting pot which does the damage - always wash hands after handling as you would any other metal which oxidizes and we should all be able to see another day …

All the best to all. JP

 

[theBaron]

I'll look in O'Brien and see if there's anything like it in shown.

I agree that I think it's meant to represent a Spitfire. I don't think it's by Comet, it doesn't look like the same style of sculpting as their armor and ship recognition models have. It does resemble a plane made from a mold by Tootsietoy, or maybe Gilbert Co, the Erector Set makers. It was a single-engine monoplane, vaguely engined with a radial. I'll see what I can find.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Hazebrouck]

JP,

It looks a bit like a Hurricane around the nose as well- a bit generic. Certainly a lot of Spitfire about it.

Could it be a mould for one of those ornamental planes you see on desks mounted on a base from the 40's and 50's?

Scott

 

[johnnybach]

What made me think that what you have there JP is an Identification Model - is this pic of some more of them made by Comet/Authenticast. Infuriatingly - I can't find a pic of their Spitfire - though I know they did make one. I also know that they were later sold as toys - and unpainted and unmarked by any logo or markings.

 

[theBaron]

Wow, John, great photo! Those are Comet airplane ID models? Interesting. I've never seen photos of them; the chapter in O'Brien's books only mentions them, because the focus is on the toy soldiers.

The armor models were in a little larger scale, relative to those aircraft castings. The ship models were maybe 1/2000, if I remember correctly. Those, I have seen. At a flea market, I saw a set made for the US Navy, in its original wooden box as carried aboard ship. I'm glad now to see a pic of their airplane models. I change my vote, then.

We learn something here, every day, prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Brad - and all - Annoyingly, I still can't find a pic of that Comet (Authenticast) Spitfire, but at least I found a copy of a page in the Authenticast catalogue which lists a Spitfire there - under British - ARMY!
I think this cataloge dates from around 1945 - hence the piece in red which states that models will be available as released for civilian sales. Lovely bit of history - but still doesn't prove that's what JP's mould is though. To read more about it - Google "WW2 recognition models"

 

[theBaron]

Hi, John, thanks for posting that catalog page. The scale listed helps confirm it, too. 1"/36' is actually 1/432 scale, if I've done my math correctly. That would seem to be about right for both the Spit and the models in your photo. This is intriguing! I don't think anyone's published this info before. At least, I don't recall having seen it in any of the mags like "Old Toy Soldier".

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

Hi again Brad - I've been interested in what's known as "Recognition Models" or "Spotter's models" or just plain "ID models" for a long while now - and there's a lot of stuff "out there" on the Internet about it. Just need time to chase it all down and read about it. Fascinating stuff - and a very practicle use of what is now just part of our hobby - during WW2. And NOT just confined to Airplanes - Tanks and Ships too. I must admit - as soon as I saw the pic of that mould - I at least THOUGHT that I knew what it was. Still not positive though - so was hoping someone might confirm - or refute the idea. jb

 

[theBaron]

I'm more familiar with the larger aircraft recognition models, made out of Bakelite, I think it was. They were all black, with some scribed lines for details like canopy frames, control surfaces. The ones I've seen at flea markets were close to 1/72 scale.

I could kick myself for not having bought that box of Navy ship recognition models, when I had the chance.

I've seen the Comet/Authenticast armor models come up on eBay from time to time, too.


Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

It's a really interesting area this one Brad - with much history behind it. JP's little model is an example of how tricky it is to decide whether it is a tool used in wartime for a serious purpose - or just a toy.

You've probably also heard of the FROG series of kits - which were available as early as 1935. Some of these were flying models (rubber-band powered) - and others made from cellulose acetate which were non-flying - and represented the birth of the construction-toy industry we know so well today. They also made aircraft recognition models during the War - known as "The Penguin Range" (they couldn't fly - geddit?). Here's an example of some of their stuff (note the Spitfire - bottom right). These are far more realistic looking than the more "sillhouette" model (as shown by JP's version).

I remember very well making up one of their rubber-band powered planes as a boy around 1950. Today, the Frog mark has long-gone - but an interesting direct descendant is todays Revell range of models.

Sorry if we've drifted a tad off JP's question - but I do think it's a relevant conversation - as I still think we are really deciding what JP's little model mould really is; - Just a toy - or a serious War tool? As you can see from the examples above - they could be both depending on when they were produced.

This may also be the case for JP's very interesting little mould - and the 'plane it produces. jb

 

[mensaman]

Hello JB and theBaron

This information is so fascinating and many thanks for all the excellent pics from the catalogue - just makes me feel my age if it was produced in the year I was born! In the first photo it looks as if there is more detail than in the mould I acquired but if it was only used for shape recognition then perhaps not meant to be painted as a model …

However thank you both for your interesting information - I think I may stick to model TS for future reference.

All the best. JP

 

[johnnybach]

Hi JP - thanks for the fascinating beginning to this search for "what have I got here". I must admit that for me - these sort of questions are some of the best things to be found on this forum. What with the power of the Internet for finding out things - and a liking for any aspect of toy soldier making and collecting - what could be a better way of learning more about this marvelous hobby?

TS collecting is a huge area to explore - and has many deviations and offshoots - so please - do continue to let yourself explore avenues that you find interesting. I know that you love collecting metal moulds - and casting from them. So be it - I'm learning as much as you from what you do - by attempting to follow questions - and the answers that they generate - so please don't stop that inquisitive mind of yours following any lead you find interesting - or buying any new mould you fancy.

We may not have cracked the exact question that you posed this time (yet), as is sometimes the case - but have explored an interesting possibility or two along the way. So what's wrong with that? johnnybach

 

[theBaron]

I'm leaning towards recognition model, probably from Comet, after everything we've discussed. One question remains for me, and that is that I've never seen one of Comet's molds, so I can't judge by that.

Regarding Frog kits, John, I've built a few, though all in their much more recent boxings, by companies that later bought this or that mold. Pioneers in injection molded plastic kits!

Prost!
Brad