Operation Bagration was the real D-Day (1 Viewer)

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tank

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Fascinating!


Objectively speaking, the real D-Day, the real “beginning of the end” for the Wehrmacht, and Nazi Germany, was the Soviet Operation Bagration.



The Wehrmacht had 58 divisions in the west, of which only 11 were deployed against the D-Day landings.
At the same time, however, the Germans deployed 228 divisions in the east. Thus, the Germans had almost four times as many troops facing the Soviets. And they had less than one-20th of that number in Normandy. That alone is an indication of where their priorities lay.

At no time after June 6, 1944, did the German high command contemplate transferring forces from the east to the west to counter the Normandy landings.
The initial D-Day landings were made with approximately 175,000 Allied troops against about 80,000 Wehrmacht soldiers. These figures were dwarfed by the strengths on the eastern front, where Operation Bagration, which was launched on June 22, 1944, pitted 2.4 million Russian troops, supported by 36,400 artillery pieces, 5,200 tanks and 5,300 aircraft, against the Germans’ Army Group Centre, which numbered 700,000 men, 900 tanks and 1,350 aircraft.

The Soviets aimed to retake Byelorussia (now Belarus), and in the process, destroy Army Group Centre.
Within a month of launching, Bagration had succeeded. In relentless lightning attacks, Soviet forces annihilated 17 German divisions and reduced another 50 to half-strength, which translated into a net German loss of 42 divisions. Army Group Centre was no more. Moreover, the Soviets had punched a hole 400 kilometres wide and 160 kilometres long in the German front. By September, they would be knocking on German-occupied Warsaw’s door.

Meanwhile, the western Allies, wedded to Montgomery’s unimaginative tactics, were still mired on the Normandy beachhead. Only on July 26, 1944, did their attempts to break out succeed, under Patton’s — not Montgomery’s — leadership.

Their breakout was aided by the fact that Bagration had forced the Wehrmacht to redeploy 46 divisions, including some from France, to the eastern front. Even then, the western Allies’ failure to close the Falaise pocket in August allowed the retreating Germans to escape. The Soviet juggernaut made no such mistake. Indeed, as Bagration showed, by the time the western Allies got around to launching their second front, which Stalin had been clamouring for since 1941, the Red Army almost didn’t need it.

Western media continue to tiresomely trumpet D-Day as a history-making event. This term can be more accurately applied to Operation Bagration, and the earlier eastern-front battles of Stalingrad and Kursk. Taken together, these battles broke the back of the Wehrmacht, and made ultimate victory over the Nazis possible.

While I would be the last one to deny or belittle the sacrifice, heroism and dedication of the brave men who risked it all by landing in Normandy, the objective historical record clearly shows that Hitler’s defeat was due more to the efforts of Private Ivan than to the efforts of Private Ryan.
In the words of the eminent military historian Chris Bellamy: “If we compare the speed and scale of the Russian advances in Operation Bagration with the lengthy battle to break out of the Normandy bridgehead, which was going on at the same time, the Russian performance is clearly superior.” This fact is undeniable, and deserves fair recognition, notwithstanding what we might think of Vladimir Putin’s doings in Crimea and Ukraine.
I venture to propose that the time has come to abolish the commemoration of D-Day in favour of one that jointly commemorates D-Day and Operation Bagration. This would be a fitting acknowledgment of the enormous efforts of all the major Allied powers to defeat the scourge of Nazism that so threatened humanity seven decades ago.

Chandar S. Sundaram is a Victoria-based military historian, writer and educator.

He presently resides in Victoria, Canada.
 
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It's not a question of where he grips it. It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five once bird could not carry a one pound coconut.
 
It's not a question of where he grips it. It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five once bird could not carry a one pound coconut.


It understandable that all these information looks ridicules to you after many years of believing that the Second Front won the WW2.

It would be awesome if you would be able to disprove the info I posted.



Hopefully you know more than these people on the video.
Cheers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQkcRX_1rmg&frags=pl,wn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vBHLcj9aDg&frags=pl,wn
 
Listen... In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty three times every second Right!!!!!!!

Am I right??
 
ah another wannabe historian who cant even get his facts right;

"Meanwhile, the western Allies, wedded to Montgomery’s unimaginative tactics, were still mired on the Normandy beachhead. Only on July 26, 1944, did their attempts to break out succeed, under Patton’s — not Montgomery’s — leadership."

just a quick look at operation cobra on wikipedia and you will see that as Montgomery was overall land commander in Normany operation Cobra to breakout was planned by him and carried out with his permission. who actually came up with the idea for the plan is still disputed - Monty or Bradley. The plan was carried out by Bradley. Monty had been executing his plan for some time of drawing German forces away from the US sector to make Cobra more likely to succeed later.

As for Bagration, undoubtedly a huge success, it was a forgone conclusion. The Germans were already so weak. The real d-day in the East was operation Uranus (Stalingrad). From then on it was all downhill for the Germans and defeat inevitable.

Moderator: can we please remove this thread and restrict the discussion to toy soldiers ? plenty of other forums out there if you want to discuss history.

Thanks,

Stefan
London
 
ah another wannabe historian who cant even get his facts right;
"Meanwhile, the western Allies, wedded to Montgomery’s unimaginative tactics, were still mired on the Normandy beachhead. Only on July 26, 1944, did their attempts to break out succeed, under Patton’s — not Montgomery’s — leadership."

just a quick look at operation cobra on wikipedia and you will see that as Montgomery was overall land commander in Normany operation Cobra to breakout was planned by him and carried out with his permission. who actually came up with the idea for the plan is still disputed - Monty or Bradley. The plan was carried out by Bradley. Monty had been executing his plan for some time of drawing German forces away from the US sector to make Cobra more likely to succeed later.

As for Bagration, undoubtedly a huge success, it was a forgone conclusion. The Germans were already so weak. The real d-day in the East was operation Uranus (Stalingrad). From then on it was all downhill for the Germans and defeat inevitable.

Moderator: can we please remove this thread and restrict the discussion to toy soldiers ? plenty of other forums out there if you want to discuss history.

Thanks,

Stefan
London


Hi Steffan.


Please have a look what I got for you.



On June 10, General Bradley and his staff debarked to establish a headquarters ashore. During Operation Overlord, he commanded three corps directed at the two American invasion targets, Utah Beach and Omaha Beach. Later in July, he planned Operation Cobra, the beginning of the breakout from the Normandy beachhead....

Bradley sent in three infantry divisions—the 9th, 4th and 30th—to move in close behind the bombing. The infantry succeeded in cracking the German defenses, opening the way for advances by armored forces commanded by Patton to sweep around the German lines.

Looks like the “wannabe” historian is right after all, isn’t he?

The author of the article: Chandar S. Sundaram is a Victoria-based military historian, writer and educator.

Kind Regards.
Serge.
 
ah another wannabe historian who cant even get his facts right;

"Meanwhile, the western Allies, wedded to Montgomery’s unimaginative tactics, were still mired on the Normandy beachhead. Only on July 26, 1944, did their attempts to break out succeed, under Patton’s — not Montgomery’s — leadership."

just a quick look at operation cobra on wikipedia and you will see that as Montgomery was overall land commander in Normany operation Cobra to breakout was planned by him and carried out with his permission. who actually came up with the idea for the plan is still disputed - Monty or Bradley. The plan was carried out by Bradley. Monty had been executing his plan for some time of drawing German forces away from the US sector to make Cobra more likely to succeed later.

As for Bagration, undoubtedly a huge success, it was a forgone conclusion. The Germans were already so weak. The real d-day in the East was operation Uranus (Stalingrad). From then on it was all downhill for the Germans and defeat inevitable.

Moderator: can we please remove this thread and restrict the discussion to toy soldiers ? plenty of other forums out there if you want to discuss history.

Thanks,

Stefan
London

Do not click on this scammers links or otherwise engage with this clown/buffoon.
 
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Could you please let me know if there is a real tank story behind this movie?





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTXFXidqhtI&frags=pl,wn


Here is a story, you would not believe it was real:

Soviet ‘Fury’: How one tank stopped a whole German division

By the morning of June 24th, German forces controlled much of the area West of Kaunas. Is was on this morning that a convoy from Kampfgruppe Raus, moving captured Soviets and wounded Germans from the front line on the Eastern side of the Dubysa, back towards Raseiniai, spotted a lone KV tank at a crossroads outside of the little village.

The KV opened fire. The convoy promptly turned around. The 6th Panzer division had been expecting another counterattack, perhaps this was the beginning of it. But tales from locals recall that this single tank had simply driven up to its location the night before and stopped, waited.

While Generaloberst Erhard Raus (commander of the Kampfgruppe which bore his name) sorted out what kind of fearsome attack the Russians were mounting between his forces and division headquarters back West, a convoy bringing his troops fuel and ammunition approached the KV’s crossroads. The KV opened fire and destroyed it, leaving twelve trucks burning.

Raus figured out it was only one tank. Supplies were needed, the wounded were suffering, this tank had to be removed. But it continued to sit there, firing shots at the Germans in Raseiniai. 50mm anti-tank guns were positioned in a battery, fired, but still the tank remained. After several minutes of silence from the fearsome metal giant, he KV turned its turret and returned fire on the battery, destroying it.

The crew of this KV had been sitting in it, under the hot summer sun for hours, their ear drums were assuredly ruptured from the concussive force of the 50mm rounds, their heads more than a little rattled, but they still held.

The Germans next tried to take it down with a 105mm Howitzer, but couldn’t hit it from a safe distance. When they tried to position an 88mm anti-aircraft turret at 700 meters, it was spotted immediately by the KV crew and destroyed.

That night, soldiers tried to plant explosives to destroy the KV, but were met with machine gun fire from the crew, and their bombs proved useless.

The next day, while distracting the KV with panzers, the Germans were able to send a half dozen anti-aircraft shells into the tanks, which again went silent.

As timid soldiers crept up to inspect the KV, they noticed the holes in the armor from the big shells. They knocked on the tank. Shockingly, the turret began to turn again. As the soldiers fled, one threw a grenade into a hole in the armor which, finally, killed the tank crew. Six men were found dead inside the KV.

The Germans buried their fallen enemy, out of respect for such a great foe. This single tank crew was the fiercest Soviet warriors they probably encountered between the start of Operation Barbarossa and the assault on Leningrad.

The marker at the grave the brave six were moved to in 1965 in Raseiniai has two names, Yershov, P.E., Smirnov, V.A., one set of initials, Sh., N.A., and three unknown warriors.

By Colin Fraser for War History Online
 
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