Opponents for Romans? (1 Viewer)

[larso]

I've always thought that anyone who does Romans has an almost endless number of enemies to choose from to be their opponents. So I'm a bit surprised that the options are usually only Barbarians or Celts. What else would be a good idea then? I suspect it would sell unevenly, depending on various things but Jewish rebels/Zealots from the various Jewish wars would be something new in terms of how they could be represented. It also opens up a few new options for the Romans too I think.

 

[Jack]

I've always thought that anyone who does Romans has an almost endless number of enemies to choose from to be their opponents. So I'm a bit surprised that the options are usually only Barbarians or Celts. What else would be a good idea then? I suspect it would sell unevenly, depending on various things but Jewish rebels/Zealots from the various Jewish wars would be something new in terms of how they could be represented. It also opens up a few new options for the Romans too I think.

Interesting thought, but without wishing to initiate a political discussion I wonder if they would be viewed differently than other Roman 'enemies'. You could make a Masada display with Sicarii rebels. Given that the IDF have their swearing in ceremonies there, it would have a nice modern link. There would also be possibilities for a link with the Jesus range. As I have said elsewhere on the forum, as a useless diorama maker anything in the desert suits me given that all I need is sand and a camel. Interesting to know when people place Roamns in a diorama do they perceive them as the good guys or the bad guys, or neither.

 

[larso]

Another group that comes to mind are the Numidians of North Africa. Obviously they're famous for their work for Hannibal - until the Battle of Zama at least (they switched to the Romans for that one) but the Romans fought them at other times as well. Historian Peter Connolly (I think) compares them to Red Indians in terms of their supreme skill as light horseman. I imagine they've been done by someone (or several someones, there's a plastic set too) for the Punic Wars but they could be stand alone too.

 

[Currahee Chris]

As with probably many fans of Rome, everything starts with Caesar, as it did with me. Once you get your feet wet then you start to dip into new and exciting eras. Im actually a big fan of the Eastern Legions and the campaigns of Septimius Severus. I am also a huge fan of Scipio Africanus (which you elude to) and the wars of the Republic. Other later emperors like Heraclius and Justinian are exceedingly interesting too.

I have messed about a little and even considered doing a small diorma using East of India's Parthians against EoI Romans- scale works best. I had even toyed with the idea of using KC or FL Crusaders to illustrate some of the Eastern Campaigns but simply let it go. I had purchased some of BH's Zama figures but sold them due to packaging issues.

So, looking at it from that perspective- I think the traditional opponents of Caesar make the Roman lines viable commercially. I think eastern/North African opponents can be done of course but it might be too risky from the commercial side.

I do not look at my Romans or Gauls in a good/bad light as I do my WW2 Americans and modern Americans. My interest in this time perod is purely academic. There are things I like from both sides and things I dislike from both sides. Both sides had enormously entertaining historic figures as well as historic importance.

 

[theBaron]

...So I'm a bit surprised that the options are usually only Barbarians or Celts...

Well, from the Roman perspective, they're all barbarians, whether Celts or others But your point is well taken. You and Chris both make some good suggestions, and it does sound like there is a good store of potential material for the manufacturers to look to.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Sahara]

I always thought the best enemy of a Roman was a Roman^&grin I guess if I had to pick something other then German tribes, celts etc...... then I would agree with larso about Zealots. I also like the Sarmatians (Roxolani). There are just to many to choose from that would spark an interest with me.

 

[Sahara]

I would probably put the Huns close to the top of my list as well.

 

[theBaron]

There's a long list of possiblities, Persians, Parthians, Medes, Arabs, Numidians, Huns (later Empire), corsairs or pirates (sea dioramas are a possibility). Scythians, too, or is that too early?

For the Jewish rebels, would they have a little of a Hellenistic look about them, in terms of their dress and gear?

Prost!
Brad

 

[Jack]

'I do not look at my Romans or Gauls in a good/bad light as I do my WW2 Americans and modern Americans. My interest in this time perod is purely academic. There are things I like from both sides and things I dislike from both sides. Both sides had enormously entertaining historic figures as well as historic importance'.[/QUOTE]

I'd never thought about it until I looked at a diorama - I think in the FL section - which showed a couple of Romans confronted by Barbarians (I cannot remember exactly who, except that the female figure was topless!) and just intuitively, without much knowledge of the period, viewed it quite clearly as a good guys versus bad guys. I don't even know why unless in my mind it morphed into the equivalent of a frontier war involving the British Army, and even then depending on who they were, my lineage might be closer to them than Romans.

 

[larso]

''and even then depending on who they were, my lineage might be closer to them than Romans"

Yes this can twist amazingly these days. I'm reminded of an episode of the American Mafia show The Sopranoes, where Tony Soprano and men were having an Orthodox Jew tortured to have him see things their way. He resisted quite manfully, drawing on his heritage for strength and said something along the lines of 'My people have endured for thousands of years - longer than anyone else in history, even the Romans. Where are they now?' To which Tony replied, 'That's us!' A cracker of a line!

 

[Jack]

Yes this can twist amazingly these days. I'm reminded of an episode of the American Mafia show The Sopranoes, where Tony Soprano and men were having an Orthodox Jew tortured to have him see things their way. He resisted quite manfully, drawing on his heritage for strength and said something along the lines of 'My people have endured for thousands of years - longer than anyone else in history, even the Romans. Where are they now?' To which Tony replied, 'That's us!' A cracker of a line![/QUOTE]


You have threadjacked your own thread! Well, to pick up on your anecdote -

I have a friend whose surname is Larsen who has a copperart image of a viking longboat on his wall to celebrate his heritage!

 

[larso]

"I have a friend whose surname is Larsen who has a copperart image of a viking longboat on his wall to celebrate his heritage!"

It's great isn't it!! Ironically I got it from my maternal grandparents whose origins were completely German and NOT from my father's Danish ones!

As much as I played 'Vikings vs Romans' extensively in my childhood, I know now that Timpo got it wrong. Though a few of the sculpts seem to owe some debt to that painting 'The Fury of the Goths' about the Teutenberg Forest.

 

[larso]

My previous attempt at this post seems to have gone awry? Anyway, on the point someone made about the Roman's biggest opponents being themselves, I wondered how each side told each other apart? Did each legion have a specific shield design for instance?

 

[Jack]

My previous attempt at this post seems to have gone awry? Anyway, on the point someone made about the Roman's biggest opponents being themselves, I wondered how each side told each other apart? Did each legion have a specific shield design for instance?

I know French Foreign Legion units lined up against each in WW2 but tended to avoid direct combat. I suppose if someone runs at you with a sword you have to make quick decisions. You don't tend to think of friendly fire in the ancient world but it must have happened quite regularly.

 

[Currahee Chris]

@Larso- yessir, shield types and designs varied widely during the life of the Roman Empire- Republic, Imperial, Byzantine, etc.

@Jack- friendly fire incidents- interesting to discuss- I think it certainly happened but I do not believe it was near the scale as we have seen since the age of the rifle. The ancient armies were pretty disciplined- IFF (Indentify Friend Foe) issues became a bit messier with rifles and later on with artillery (indirect fire) and fully automatic weapons. In melee combats, the individuals have a second or perhaps two more than riflemen would have had so I have to believe they were able to discern friend/foe a bit easier. Roman armies were very disciplined in use of standard bearers and hornblowers to aid/assist Centurions in gauging where the enemy was. I cannot honestly say I haven't read anything where friendly fire incidents were on the scale of the French army blowing away 75,000 of their own guys in artillery fire during WW1.