Panzer Colors in Photos from Armor Museums. (2 Viewers)

[katana]

Panzer camouflage color photos from Armor Museums. Examination of exhibits of German WWII Tricolor Camouflage in Munster, Bovington and Kubinka Armor Museums are very interesting. The late war Panther in the photos utilized whatever paint was available to make an interesting and effective splinter pattern. The museums have many online photos of their exhibits for study.

 

[chemiebay]

Katana, if you want a 99% perfect tank you HAVE TO buy model kits as I do.
Toy soldiers miniatures are, after all, toy soldiers, and I think most toy soldiers collectors are not worried for a 99% perfect model.
Yes, last FL KT had a huge price tag, and that’s the reason I let it go. However there are a lot collectors who accepted that tag price, and probably would have accepted a higher one, so I have to congratulate FL for the sales. I am also happy because of those customers, thanks to them the toy soldiers industry is alive and new companies are growing, bringing us new tanks and vehicles with a more than accepted quality for the price.
After all, you are not forced to buy a product, you are free to compare and choose!

 

[katana]

Chemiebay I build and paint a lot of model panzers 1/35 and 1/25-24 scale. The Tamiya and Academy 1/25 scale models are great. The Bandai 1/24 King Tiger with complete interior is excellent. I have posted photos on the forum of the 1/25 Tamiya Tiger I, Jagdpanther and T34-85. The Academy 1/25 Panther, the1/24 Bandai KT and a Tasca 1/24 Panzer II; all have individually articulated tracks and operating suspensions.

Many Toy Soldier collector cannot build and paint models; which is the market served by the Toy Soldier manufacturers. Several years ago Toy Soldier model Armor was less expensive than custom built 1/35 models; such is no longer the case. The custom 1/35 models are a better buy in terms of accuracy and detail. A JJD Jagdpanther at $268.00 or and Award Winning 1/35 scale model for $250.00; which would you choose?

The FL Kingtiger should have been a superb model, accurate and highly detailed. Instead FL produced an inaccurate model at a very high price. I wonder if they have ever visited a museum and seen a Kingtiger or even looked at a Tamiya catalog. Who was responsible for the poor research that produced a model with errors Tamiya, Dragon or Ming wouldn't have made? FL needs to improve their research so embarrassing inaccuracies are avoided in future IMO.

 

[Sahara]

The beat goes on and on.

 

[Sahara]

I'm really trying to understand your perspective but I just don't. You argue that FL missed the mark by excluding some features that makes the KT more authentic and real. Yet you yourself indicate that working models which you have flat out stated you prefer make a trade off of functionality versus realism. So if that is the case then why the dig at FL when your own KT that you like has its problems. In addition to the screws the Vs has weathering problems as well. Weathering on the tracks, back deck but no where else. What gives? What stance are you taking. I don't understand how you can be so stubborn on one thing and then on another thread present some thing that flat out does not portray realism such as a carpet for a ground base and Legos for fort walls.

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Gents

If you have an issue with a vehicle from any company please refrain from making it personal and attacking or questioning a specific person from that company. Discussion is fine. Making it personal is not. Otherwise, have a good time discussing the hobby.

Dave

 

[katana]

The Vs Tank KT is an RC tank that cost $139.00 and is not weathered; yet it has the correct Idler position and areas painted blck that the FL KT does not; but should as the comparison photos on the FL thread with a real KT clearly show. The TCS KT is a more logical subject for comparison as it is a Toy soldier model that is more expensive than the VS Tank KT, is weathered, has more detail I.E. metal screens over the air intakes etc. The TCS KT has the Idler correctly placed and the areas mentiond correctly painted black. The MG port is also correctly positioned. The significant cost difference between the FL and TCS models should dictate that the FL model would be superior in accuracy; it is not. I think this makes my perspective clear.

The blocks I use for toy fortifications are Exin blocks not Legos. The ground cover I use for dioramas is not carpet. I use a range of fabrics to simulate, Grass, Sand, Snow or Mud depending on the requirements.

I'm really trying to understand your perspective but I just don't. You argue that FL missed the mark by excluding some features that makes the KT more authentic and real. Yet you yourself indicate that working models which you have flat out stated you prefer make a trade off of functionality versus realism. So if that is the case then why the dig at FL when your own KT that you like has its problems. In addition to the screws the Vs has weathering problems as well. Weathering on the tracks, back deck but no where else. What gives? What stance are you taking. I don't understand how you can be so stubborn on one thing and then on another thread present some thing that flat out does not portray realism such as a carpet for a ground base and Legos for fort walls.

 

[katana]

I am glad to see everyone is enjoying these photos. I will post some more from the various armor museums. The Camouflage Colors and pattern on the Bovington Tank Museum Panther and Jagdpanther has been controversial. I recently read an article that cited Hilary L. Doyle had agreed these colors and patterns were correct. The Oxidrot, Dunkelgleb and Elfenbein stripes make for a vivid pattern. The colors and splinter patterns were used on the Oder Front in 1945. Anyone with further information on the colors and patterns please post. Thanks,

Panzer camouflage color photos from Armor Museums. Examination of exhibits of German WWII Tricolor Camouflage in Munster, Bovington and Kubinka Armor Museums are very interesting. The late war Panther in the photos utilized whatever paint was available to make an interesting and effective splinter pattern. The museums have many online photos of their exhibits for study.

View attachment 235624View attachment 235626View attachment 235629View attachment 235627

 

[Obee]

Here are a few vehicles that I've seen on my travels in Europe over the past 10 years ….







Interesting ?????

John

 

[Sahara]

The Vs Tank KT is an RC tank that cost $139.00 and is not weathered; yet it has the correct Idler position and areas painted blck that the FL KT does not; but should as the comparison photos on the FL thread with a real KT clearly show. The TCS KT is a more logical subject for comparison as it is a Toy soldier model that is more expensive than the VS Tank KT, is weathered, has more detail I.E. metal screens over the air intakes etc. The TCS KT has the Idler correctly placed and the areas mentiond correctly painted black. The MG port is also correctly positioned. The significant cost difference between the FL and TCS models should dictate that the FL model would be superior in accuracy; it is not. I think this makes my perspective clear.

The blocks I use for toy fortifications are Exin blocks not Legos. The ground cover I use for dioramas is not carpet. I use a range of fabrics to simulate, Grass, Sand, Snow or Mud depending on the requirements.

I'm not buying it. I dunno. I don't think your argument is good enough for this one. However that is your opinion and your untitled to it. You can think your Vs and TCS KT are better and I can think my FL model is far more superior^&grin

 

[Blowtorch]

Katana, you are doing more harm than good by referring manufacturers to follow museum pieces. Some museums are better at color research than others, some restored tanks are better than others. You cant make these generalizations. The RAL WW2 colors exist in four locations in Germany. At RAL itself, and at three different German universities. I would suggest that you follow up on those leads given your passion for the subject. You need to catch up on what is already known on this subject. Referring our TS manufacturers to Tamiya box art and museum pieces is not good.

If you are reaaally interested in this, may I suggest you contact me by private mail, and I can bring you up to speed. Then you may even like to go to Germany to see the colors in the flesh.

Youre passionate, I understand. My suggestion is to acquire more knowledge and do less proselytizing

 

[katana]

The comment about the Tamiya catalog was sarcasm! I have been to Germany and visited the museums. I have a large library and I do a lot of research. I think seeing a KT up close would be a good idea for anyone aspiring to manufacture a model of it, don't you? I think it would help in avoiding misplacing various bits and pieces.

Katana, you are doing more harm than good by referring manufacturers to follow museum pieces. Some museums are better at color research than others, some restored tanks are better than others. You cant make these generalizations. The RAL WW2 colors exist in four locations in Germany. At RAL itself, and at three different German universities. I would suggest that you follow up on those leads given your passion for the subject. You need to catch up on what is already known on this subject. Referring our TS manufacturers to Tamiya box art and museum pieces is not good.

If you are reaaally interested in this, may I suggest you contact me by private mail, and I can bring you up to speed. Then you may even like to go to Germany to see the colors in the flesh.

Youre passionate, I understand. My suggestion is to acquire more knowledge and do less proselytizing

 

[katana]

I am not saying the TCS KT is better than the FL KT. The TCS KT is more accurate than the FL KT and the comparison photos with an actual KT prove it.

I am glad the inaccuracies don't bother you; they would bother me.

I'm not buying it. I dunno. I don't think your argument is good enough for this one. However that is your opinion and your untitled to it. You can think your Vs and TCS KT are better and I can think my FL model is far more superior^&grin

 

[Sahara]

I am not saying the TCS KT is better than the FL KT. The TCS KT is more accurate than the FL KT and the comparison photos with an actual KT prove it.

I am glad the inaccuracies don't bother you; they would bother me.

I guess in the same token I'm glad you are happy with your TCS and Vs inaccuracies as well because they would bother me personally.

 

[Blowtorch]

Katana, you are starting to make me wonder. The TCS KT isnt even proportioned right

 

[katana]

Most polystone Toy Soldier models are not proportional in the since that the Length, Width and Height are different scales. The TCS KT is 1/28 scale overall. I was not discussing scale or proportion in my comparison of TCS and FL KTs; but accuracy of detail i.e the Idler position primarily. I could just as easily have used the K&C BBG-016 as the more accurate comparison example with the FL KT. Andy usually gets the details right on armor. The scale not so much!

Katana, you are starting to make me wonder. The TCS KT isnt even proportioned right

 

[Hunter Rose]

Most polystone Toy Soldier models are not proportional in the since that the Length, Width and Height are different scales. The TCS KT is 1/28 scale overall. I was not discussing scale or proportion in my comparison of TCS and FL KTs; but accuracy of detail i.e the Idler position primarily. I could just as easily have used the K&C BBG-016 as the more accurate comparison example with the FL KT. Andy usually gets the details right on armor. The scale not so much!

Blowtorch,

The above is why it is useless to discuss/debate stuff with Katana. His arguments and logic are so inconsistent it becomes nonsensical.

You offer a rebuff to Katana's assertion that the TCS King Tiger is more accurate by bringing up the absolutely valid point that the TCS King Tiger's hull proportions are incorrect. Then your argument is summarily dismissed with a nonsensical claim that proportion has nothing to do with accuracy?

On what planet does incorrect hull width/length/height proportions not make a model inaccurate?

Using Katana's logic above, a "square" could have two sides that are twice as long as the other two sides and yet still be described as an accurrate "square", it's proportions are just off! {sm2}

This post is directed at Blowtorch (who I've learned lots from in back and forth discussions over the years) as friendly advice to save Blowtorch some headaches.

 

[Blowtorch]

Thank you HR. I have learned my lesson.

 

[katana]

If the disproportion of polystone models makes them inaccurate than all polystone models are inaccurate. Differential shrink rates during curing in the mold is the probable cause and is manufacturing process related. Not an oversight or mistake by the manufacturer. I suppose I should have defined what I mean by inaccuracy more clearly. I will redefine inaccurate in this context to mean; dislocation of the Idler on a KT model. The FL KT has this problem, TCS and K&C KTs do not. I acknowledge the TCS and K&C KT models have other accuracy issues. Please see the photos posted on the FL thread for further clarification of the problem.

 

[katana]

Who was it that said (Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds)? You play word games well Hunter; but facts are facts and photos have proven the facts in this instance. So twist the meanining of words all you want.

Please post photos of the TCS, K&C and FL KTs and show which has the worst errors. I think a comprehensive comparison review by yourself of all three would be welcomed by everyone on the forum with an interest in KTs. I look forward to seeing your repaint of the K&C BBG-016 KT. I noticed that the colors are much darker than those on the original and the FL KT. I take it Lime Green does not appeal to you!

Blowtorch,

The above is why it is useless to discuss/debate stuff with Katana. His arguments and logic are so inconsistent it becomes nonsensical.

You offer a rebuff to Katana's assertion that the TCS King Tiger is more accurate by bringing up the absolutely valid point that the TCS King Tiger's hull proportions are incorrect. Then your argument is summarily dismissed with a nonsensical claim that proportion has nothing to do with accuracy?

On what planet does incorrect hull width/length/height proportions not make a model inaccurate?

Using Katana's logic above, a "square" could have two sides that are twice as long as the other two sides and yet still be described as an accurrate "square", it's proportions are just off! {sm2}

This post is directed at Blowtorch (who I've learned lots from in back and forth discussions over the years) as friendly advice to save Blowtorch some headaches.