Please Help Identify Britains? (1 Viewer)

[Clutch Cargo]

Hello, this is my first time on the Forum. I recently purchased these real nice metal toy soldiers. I belive they are Britains. Most are marked as shown. I belive the top word partially cut off is Britains and the bottom word I can't make out, possibly Proppiet?

Grey and White they stand approx. 2 1/8 inches high. There are 49 pieces. Most have the gun. There are a few with drums and other instruments as shown.

Are these Britain's, possiby Napoleonic? If Britain's, anuy information on the variety, age and scale are greatly appreciated on these fine soldiers.

Thank You....Clutch Cargo

 

[4th Hussar]

They are USMA West Point Cadets from Set 299

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Thank you very much for the set 299 USMA West Point Cadet...

Are they definetly Britains? Any idea of age?

 

[Clutch Cargo]

I see some are Pre War and some Post War. How can you tell the difference?

 

[4th Hussar]

I see some are Pre War and some Post War. How can you tell the difference?

No but there is a a member named ROAN that can. Try sending him a PM

 

[johnnybach]

Hi.

I'm not a Britains expert - but can help with this one.

It is a figure from Britains Set 299, "West Point Cadets in Summer Dress, marching at the slope. The set was first issued in 1936 and came in a Whistock box (The box is really the best indicator of age - and the one pictured below was designed by Fred Whistock). The set was of 8 figures, originally. You can see Fred's name on bottom left corner of the label on the box.

All Britains foot figures should be marked on their bases - as yours is. The end of the word should read Proprieters. These marks were originally there to protect copyright - as a lot of "piracy" of figure design was going on at that time.



Hope that helps - johnnybach

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Thank you Johnnybach that helps a lot. Strange thing is that there are some playing bugle or drums. These are not marked on the bottom. Uniforms and size are the same.

 

[johnnybach]

Okay - glad that helped. There was more than one manufacturer of West Point Cadet figures. I don't know whether Britains made a band - but Timpo did (another British manufacturer of Hollowcast Toy Soldiers - so named because they were really cast as a hollow shell).

Here's a pic that I picked up from an Auction site ( my thanks go to Vectis Auctions for this pic - used for illustrative purposes only as an aid to identifying ). I'm really guessing at this point - as it aids identification enormously - if you could add a picture of a piece - or pieces you are trying to identify ( for the future).

Does this look like any you have? They are by TIMPO - of various figures - including a Mounted Officer, Colour bearer (Guy with the flag), Drum major and various bandsmen and other figures, with various instruments and weapons - so quite a mixed bunch. There are a couple of drummers in there if you look closely.

These would date from the 1950's - as alas, sad to say Timpo is no more.

Hope that helps. jb.

 

[johnnybach]

Okay - glad that helped. There was more than one manufacturer of West Point Cadet figures. I don't know whether Britains made a band - but Timpo did (another British manufacturer of Hollowcast Toy Soldiers - so named because they were really cast as a hollow shell).

Here's a pic that I picked up from an Auction site ( my thanks go to Vectis Auctions for this pic - used for illustrative purposes only as an aid to identifying ). I'm really guessing at this point - as it aids identification enormously - if you could add a picture of a piece - or pieces you are trying to identify ( for the future).

Does this look like any you have? They are by TIMPO - of various figures - including a Mounted Officer, Colour bearer (Guy with the flag), Drum major and various bandsmen and other figures, with various instruments and weapons - so quite a mixed bunch. There are a couple of drummers in there if you look closely.

These would date from the 1950's - as alas, sad to say Timpo is no more.

Hope that helps. jb.

Just a note of caution - added to these figures. I'm not so sure that ALL of them are Timpo - as the mounted Officer looks alo t like an item by a French manufacturer called QUIRALU - whose products are made of solid aluminium. There were also West Point cadets made byRegal (British), Mignot (another French maker) and Hurraah! at last - - an American maker - Marx!!!!

Best post pictures of what you have - and then we can all take a look - and have a go at ID-ing 'em. jb

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Thank You very much. Most of the lot are the Britains West Point Marching Cadets Summer Dress.

I have attached pictures of 2 of the Musicians. They are the same size and look to have the same uniform.
As can be seen in the pictures, unlike the marching cadets, they are not marked on the bottom.

The information is greatly appreciated....Clutch Cargo

 

[johnnybach]

Thanks for the extra pics - which helps a bit by being able to eliminate some makes.

My first guess at perhaps they were Timpo - can now be shown to be incorrect, ( and shows the value of ALWAYS including a picture).

Here's a pic of Timpo Set 770 (produced in metal from c. 1949-1956), though I think they were also produced later in plastic - which isn't relevant here.



Note that there are two side-drummers in this set - on the bottom row. Their arms are posed differently to yours - with pads on the end of the drumsticks - and no cross-belts across the body. So........lovely set - but not yours. (Incidentaly, I think this picture has been printed reversed - as the drums should be on the other side of the body - but shows the differences anyway. I found it online.).

The Mignot (French set) side-drummers are playing half-drums - so again NOT your figure.

The American Marx set is in plastic - again NOT yours.

IF your figure is solid - but FEELS quite light - I'm tempted to say that it COULD be Quiralu - in which case it is made of aluminium and not the softer metal mix of Britains and Timpo.


Anyone else care to venture an opinion???? Hope my contribution helps a bit. jb

 

[thebritfarmer]

Wondering if they could be Britains recasts and then made into a band?

 

[johnnybach]

Wondering if they could be Britains recasts and then made into a band?

I'm glad somebody else came up with that idea, Scott. The thought had crossed my mind that they could be. The bases look unusually rough on the underside - and the arms on the drummer and fifer also look poorly fitted at the shoulder. The drum has also just been stuck to the leg - with no attempt to continue any belt down to connect it. All consistent with homecast figures.

One of the reasons I got interested in these figures - is that I have been wondering about making up a band of these for myself, for some time. (When I've got some space on my bench!). I know that Dorset Soldiers makes a partial re-cast version of this figure - using recasts of the old Timpo body of the figure - and then adding their own range of arms/instruments etc., to complete very similar Marching figures, to the Timpo original - [which haven't been produced in metal since the 1950's. I think that Timpo changed over to plastics and finally gave up production altogether in 1979.]

All of these parts can also be purchased separately as castings - to make up for yourself - OR can be purchased painted too from Dorset. In fact, the whole range of band instruments are available from them - which greatly expands the very limited range of instruments used by Timpo to make up the original set 770 - and that's the attraction for me.

So.....maybe someone DID do just that - as the body of the figure DOES look very like the Britains one. Unless, somebody knows of another version by somebody else???? They were (and still are) a very popular item, and I guess particularly for Americans??? jb

 

[Clutch Cargo]

That might be it....Britains recast. Very interesting information. Thank You.

 

[johnnybach]

That might be it....Britains recast. Very interesting information. Thank You.

Pleasure to be of some help - but don't give up on them just yet - that's just my (and Scott's) opinion - for now.

This set is really an Iconic American one - depicting West Point Cadets. There may well be other manufacturers of them, that I don't know about. BUT - at least you now know a bit more about them - and at least some of the ones you DO have - (and those you don't!).

There is another box by Britains, by the way - known as the post-war box ( the one I found a pic of is the pre-war box) - and which, if you have one , may help to date them further. Have a look at Google Images - and you may see this later box.

Best - jb

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for coming so late to the discussion. The last two fellows for sure look like home castings due to all the points that Johnny already covered. You will be able to tell them from the earlier Britains figures you have by the weight. The home casts are usually heavier since they arent hollow cast and made mainly with lead in most cases. Do you have more to post?



Dave