Redcoats confusion! (1 Viewer)

[craig1985taylor]

Hi just wondering if anybody can help explain to me what each of these redcoats drill positions are called?

1)

I know this one is ''Port Arms'' hope someone can help explain the rest to me!?!!

2)

3)

4)

5)

6)

7)

8)

9)

 

[craig1985taylor]

Also was wondering what these 2 would be called? & i was also wondering why they arnt carrying there rifles the same way arnt they ment to be displayed together?
10)

11)

 

[trooper]

Figure 2 is a BIG mistake, the arm has been attached in the wrong position, no one marches swinging their left arm in time with their left leg. That noise you can hear is the sound of thousands of guardsmen spinning in their graves accompanied by the machine gun popping of veins bursting as blood pressure nears apoplexy in every ex serviceman. Richard Walker has been quoted as saying IF they rerun the figure they will make the change!!

 

[craig1985taylor]

Figure 2 is a BIG mistake, the arm has been attached in the wrong position, no one marches swinging their left arm in time with their left leg. That noise you can hear is the sound of thousands of guardsmen spinning in their graves accompanied by the machine gun popping of veins bursting as blood pressure nears apoplexy in every ex serviceman. Richard Walker has been quoted as saying IF they rerun the figure they will make the change!!

Thanks Trooper i did think that he looked a bit strange marching like that! How did it ever get through the quality control lol

Craig

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi There,

Good question! Here are the ones I am pretty sure of.

#5 is Order Arms
#6 is called At Ease
#7, 9, 10, & 11 Are all versions of Shoulder Arms from various Drill formations. They used either shoulder depending on what formation or Drill was being executed. Also I believe #4 is this position as well. Sorry for such a vague answer but my research books are still on the high seas.

# 8 is from a firing line and but for that era it wasnt the old "ready aim fire line it was something else and since I am totally exhausted it escapes me right now.

Hope these are helpful. If you have more questions do check out wikipedia or just do a "bing or google search for British Army Rifle Drill and you should find a few good sites to read through.

Dave

 

[craig1985taylor]

Hi There,

Good question! Here are the ones I am pretty sure of.

#5 is Order Arms
#6 is called At Ease
#7, 9, 10, & 11 Are all versions of Shoulder Arms from various Drill formations. They used either shoulder depending on what formation or Drill was being executed. Also I believe #4 is this position as well. Sorry for such a vague answer but my research books are still on the high seas.

# 8 is from a firing line and but for that era it wasnt the old "ready aim fire line it was something else and since I am totally exhausted it escapes me right now.

Hope these are helpful. If you have more questions do check out wikipedia or just do a "bing or google search for British Army Rifle Drill and you should find a few good sites to read through.

Dave

Thank you Dave you dont have to worry about the answers being vague as you have enlightened me & explained more then i knew beforehand ill do a google search & read up more on the different drills, I didn't even think to do that.

Cheers Craig

 

[Ken & Ericka Osen/H&A Studio]

Also was wondering what these 2 would be called? & i was also wondering why they arnt carrying there rifles the same way arnt they ment to be displayed together?
10)

11)

Hi There!
10 is at advance arms and 11 is at shoulder arms. If these muskets did not have the bayonets fixed they would be at advance firelock and shoulder firelock. Men on the move could also be at slope arms, or firelocks.
Often the NCOs would carry the arms at the advance position while the men carried at shoulder or slope positions... confusing eh?

4 is at advance arms in formation, 5 is at order arms, 6 is at rest arms, 7 is at support arms and if the right hand was also grasping the musket at the wrist it would be, maximum support.
9 is at the shoulder, or 'the position of the soldier'. This is position the men would fall in at under arms, but usually without the bayonet fixed. Both 7 and 9 could be on post as sentries. In rainy weather there is also the position of secure arms where the muzzle is angled toward the ground with the butt tucked under the left arm. I haven't sculpted a figure in this position yet.

1 + 8 are not at precise drill positions.
If 8 was at the correct leg position for 'present' second rank, the left heel would be tucked into the instep of the right heel.
If 1 were at proper 'port arms' then the body would be faced to the front... this is more of a variation of 'on guard'.
Figures 2+ 3 were sculpted by another artist and I cannot speak for them, although I do know that the incorrect arm position was a factory error.
Hope this helps.
Ken

 

[craig1985taylor]

Hi There!
10 is at advance arms and 11 is at shoulder arms. If these muskets did not have the bayonets fixed they would be at advance firelock and shoulder firelock. Men on the move could also be at slope arms, or firelocks.
Often the NCOs would carry the arms at the advance position while the men carried at shoulder or slope positions... confusing eh?

4 is at advance arms in formation, 5 is at order arms, 6 is at rest arms, 7 is at support arms and if the right hand was also grasping the musket at the wrist it would be, maximum support.
9 is at the shoulder, or 'the position of the soldier'. This is position the men would fall in at under arms, but usually without the bayonet fixed. Both 7 and 9 could be on post as sentries. In rainy weather there is also the position of secure arms where the muzzle is angled toward the ground with the butt tucked under the left arm. I haven't sculpted a figure in this position yet.

1 + 8 are not at precise drill positions.
If 8 was at the correct leg position for 'present' second rank, the left heel would be tucked into the instep of the right heel.
If 1 were at proper 'port arms' then the body would be faced to the front... this is more of a variation of 'on guard'.
Figures 2+ 3 were sculpted by another artist and I cannot speak for them, although I do know that the incorrect arm position was a factory error.
Hope this helps.
Ken

Thank you for taking the time to explain this all to me Ken it has helped a lot one question though with 10 & 11 would they look correct marching together or would they all have there arms positioned the same?

Cheers Craig

 

[Ken & Ericka Osen/H&A Studio]

Remember that we are looking at a flank company, the Grenadiers, and the Center Company sometimes referred to as 'Hat Men'.

Usually there would be 10 companies, one of which would be a Grenadier company, and by the late 1760s, early 1770s a second flank company of Light Infantry. This remaining 8 companies in a line regiment would be Center Companies, or Hat Companies.

It is worth noting that the organization of the Guards was different in strength from the numbered line regiments. Often the full strength could be twice that of the line regiments and in later periods many regiments had a second battalion that might be at different strength too.

In the line of march each company would would be under command of their own company officers and you might see them at different positions of march at the same time.

Also in line of march the change of arm position (musket) might occur as a 'ripple effect' as the 'command' and 'command of execution' might not be heard at the same time and could be executed on a visual observation by the junior officers or NCOs.
Again, I hope this helps!
Ken

 

[craig1985taylor]

Remember that we are looking at a flank company, the Grenadiers, and the Center Company sometimes referred to as 'Hat Men'.

Usually there would be 10 companies, one of which would be a Grenadier company, and by the late 1760s, early 1770s a second flank company of Light Infantry. This remaining 8 companies in a line regiment would be Center Companies, or Hat Companies.

It is worth noting that the organization of the Guards was different in strength from the numbered line regiments. Often the full strength could be twice that of the line regiments and in later periods many regiments had a second battalion that might be at different strength too.

In the line of march each company would would be under command of their own company officers and you might see them at different positions of march at the same time.

Also in line of march the change of arm position (musket) might occur as a 'ripple effect' as the 'command' and 'command of execution' might not be heard at the same time and could be executed on a visual observation by the junior officers or NCOs.
Again, I hope this helps!
Ken

Thanks i think its all starting to make a bit more sense to me now, hopefully when i start to make up a few parade displays they will look kinda authentic now.

Cheers Craig