Relative size of our hobby (1 Viewer)

[Partner]

I see we have 2,347 members on the forum. My wife just informed me that her knitting forum "Ravelry" got its 2,000,000th member today .

Easy to see why I have visited a lot more wool stores than my wife has toy soldier stores .

 

[johnnybach]

If you ask her to knit you a Toy Soldier - she might get honorary Membership??

 

[waynepoo]

I have to share my man cave once a week with a knitting club of ten women, so don't feel you're alone, I'm surrounded by wool{sm2}{sm2}{sm2}{sm2}
Wayne.

 

[Currahee Chris]

I have to share my man cave once a week with a knitting club of ten women, so don't feel you're alone, I'm surrounded by wool{sm2}{sm2}{sm2}{sm2}
Wayne.

Wondered why I always seemed to hear some bleating in the background when reading your posts!! {sm4}{sm4}

that's cute!!

 

[lancer]

My wife is into the knitting scene, too. We have almost as many skeins of yarn around the house as we do TS. The TS display better, IMHO.^&grin -- Al

 

[ucla1967]

Okay, enough with the knittng jokes already! Seriously, I have often wondered how many toy soldier collectors there are out there. The Forum may not be the best way to estimate that number. A lot of the older guys, are not on line, period, let alone not on the Forum. Some of the collectors I know with impressive toy soldier collections or connections to the hobby are in this catagory, including Ed Ruby (who at one time had the largest Britains collection in the world), Bob Walker, Bill Connolly (the former owner the the Toy Soldier Exchange in Pasadena), the late Neal Crowley, etc. What I would be interested in knowing, is what are the subscription numbers for Toy Soldier & Model Figure magazine and Toy Soldier magazine. I would take those numbers and double them to get a rough idea, but I would not be surprised if the number was fewer than 10,000.

 

[Currahee Chris]

Well Mike,

The same argument against when trying to gauge the interest in the hobby because of TF could also be leveraged against the TS Magazine. I do not subscribe- great publication, I just don't subscribe. I agree as well as I know there are a lot of big time collectors out there who do not partake in the forum unfortunately.

My trouble with this is the hobby has to agree on what a toy soldier is in the first place- metal, matte 1:32nd figures, well, then you exclude glossy collectors, plastics, etc.

I define a toy soldier as either a mass or boutique produced product used by an individual attempting to portray some measure of action or other representation within a historical context. Going by my definition, you grab all plastic collectors, all metal matte, glossy collectors, all scale collectors- 1:72nd, 1:32nd and the various degrees thereof, 1:18th, even 1:6th GI Joe collectors- so by my definition, the net is cast rather wide and I would venture an estimate of several million worldwide.

 

[ucla1967]

Well Mike,

The same argument against when trying to gauge the interest in the hobby because of TF could also be leveraged against the TS Magazine. I do not subscribe- great publication, I just don't subscribe. I agree as well as I know there are a lot of big time collectors out there who do not partake in the forum unfortunately.

My trouble with this is the hobby has to agree on what a toy soldier is in the first place- metal, matte 1:32nd figures, well, then you exclude glossy collectors, plastics, etc.

I define a toy soldier as either a mass or boutique produced product used by an individual attempting to portray some measure of action or other representation within a historical context. Going by my definition, you grab all plastic collectors, all metal matte, glossy collectors, all scale collectors- 1:72nd, 1:32nd and the various degrees thereof, 1:18th, even 1:6th GI Joe collectors- so by my definition, the net is cast rather wide and I would venture an estimate of several million worldwide.

Well, Chris, here is where we differ. I don't cast such a wide net. I agree that metal, plastic, composition, 54mm, 60mm (and other sizes), glossy, and matte, qualify. However, I do not personally believe that war gamers, for example, are toy soldier collectors, per se. As for GI Joe--they are dolls for boys as conceived by the marketing department of the company that introduced them to supplement the dolls for girls they were already producing. Your comment that "then you exclude glossy collectors..." is at variance with my view that the 54mm glossy collector is the traditional, historic heart of 20th century toy soldier collecting. That would be the last group I would exclude. I was collecting before Andy Nielson, by accident, launched the 60mm matte craze that is now so popular with collectors; I had a fairly decent collection of K&C glossy, 54mm sets. So, the 60mm matte collectors are johnny come latelies in the long history of toy soldier collecting. But I am glad they are here.

I believe your estimate of several million is wishful thinking---I wish it were true. I was using the subscriptions to the two afore mentioned toy soldier magazines as a way of gaging interest in the hobby. I figure that some collectors subscribe to one of them, others subscribe to the other, while many do not subscribe to either. So I combined both subscription bases and doubled to get a wild guess as to the number of toy soldier collectors. One can also consider the attendance at the Toy Soldier Shows. On average, it is somewhere around 1,000 for the larger shows. In fact, I am hoping it will be that high for next week's West Coaster---it has been about half of that number for the last couple of years.

 

[Peter Reuss]

And define 'collector.' Is a guy who bought figures in 1995 and has a small dio a 'collector' if they don't continue to buy? What about the gal who gets two Britains a year for her son?

 

[ucla1967]

And define 'collector.' Is a guy who bought figures in 1995 and has a small dio a 'collector' if they don't continue to buy? What about the gal who gets two Britains a year for her son?

A collector is someone who collects things as a hobby. The former I would consider to be an inactive collector while the gal is definitely not a collector while her son may be one in the future.

 

[Currahee Chris]

Well, Chris, here is where we differ. I don't cast such a wide net. I agree that metal, plastic, composition, 54mm, 60mm (and other sizes), glossy, and matte, qualify. However, I do not personally believe that war gamers, for example, are toy soldier collectors, per se. As for GI Joe--they are dolls for boys as conceived by the marketing department of the company that introduced them to supplement the dolls for girls they were already producing. Your comment that "then you exclude glossy collectors..." is at variance with my view that the 54mm glossy collector is the traditional, historic heart of 20th century toy soldier collecting. That would be the last group I would exclude. I was collecting before Andy Nielson, by accident, launched the 60mm matte craze that is now so popular with collectors; I had a fairly decent collection of K&C glossy, 54mm sets. So, the 60mm matte collectors are johnny come latelies in the long history of toy soldier collecting. But I am glad they are here.

I believe your estimate of several million is wishful thinking---I wish it were true. I was using the subscriptions to the two afore mentioned toy soldier magazines as a way of gaging interest in the hobby. I figure that some collectors subscribe to one of them, others subscribe to the other, while many do not subscribe to either. So I combined both subscription bases and doubled to get a wild guess as to the number of toy soldier collectors. One can also consider the attendance at the Toy Soldier Shows. On average, it is somewhere around 1,000 for the larger shows. In fact, I am hoping it will be that high for next week's West Coaster---it has been about half of that number for the last couple of years.

Hey Mike-

I think we are sort of proving each others points. I would agree that a good starting to point to gauge a reasonable estimate on the size of the hobby dominated by this forum's membership would be to follow the rules of thumbs you propose.

I have had this discussion with several collectors over the years and its fun to see where we all differ. Some collectors say 3 3/4 inch (1:18th scale) toy figures are action figures because they "move" or are otherwise poseable. I disagree- just because they can move, they are still army guys with toy guns. And the 1:6TH GI Joe brand has quite a healthy following and I would venture to say it probably dwarfs the 1:30th folks considerably.

So, given my definition- as we both agree it casts a very wide net, I believe there are legions of toy soldier collectors out there. Heck, the Terra Cotta toy soldiers in China are a state treasure owned by the Chinese people- there's a few billion collectors we need to get into the fold!! {sm4}{sm4}

Unfortunately, I feel that our traditional toy soldier hobby is in a decline in terms of members but as the years go by, and there are fewer of us still collecting this stuff, I like to think I am part of a pretty elite club.

Very best regards
CC

 

[theBaron]

This topic resurfaces from time to time.

You have to be careful, when looking at the number of registered members, and then extrapolating that to the number of collectors in the world. For one thing, there are other toy soldier, and model figure forums, so we'd have to account for how many of our members are members elsewhere, or aren't, and how many members at each site are members only at that site. Also, our count is inflated a little by spammers, and by folks who find the forum, but only post once or twice, someone who's inherited a set of toy soldiers and is looking for help to identify it and dispose of it, but who won't be back after that. Also, not everyone in the hobby has Internet access, or has time to spend online on a forum.

But it's possible to estimate. Take into account membership, with the caveats; show attendance; and the numbers of editions that the major manufacturers put out, and it's possible to get a rough estimate, I suppose.

I estimate, thought, that there are fewer toy soldier collectors than model figure painters and collectors (though there is overlap) or scale modelers, or wargamers.

Prost!
Brad

 

[ucla1967]

Hey Mike-

I think we are sort of proving each others points. I would agree that a good starting to point to gauge a reasonable estimate on the size of the hobby dominated by this forum's membership would be to follow the rules of thumbs you propose.

I have had this discussion with several collectors over the years and its fun to see where we all differ. Some collectors say 3 3/4 inch (1:18th scale) toy figures are action figures because they "move" or are otherwise poseable. I disagree- just because they can move, they are still army guys with toy guns. And the 1:6TH GI Joe brand has quite a healthy following and I would venture to say it probably dwarfs the 1:30th folks considerably.

So, given my definition- as we both agree it casts a very wide net, I believe there are legions of toy soldier collectors out there. Heck, the Terra Cotta toy soldiers in China are a state treasure owned by the Chinese people- there's a few billion collectors we need to get into the fold!! {sm4}{sm4}

Unfortunately, I feel that our traditional toy soldier hobby is in a decline in terms of members but as the years go by, and there are fewer of us still collecting this stuff, I like to think I am part of a pretty elite club.

Very best regards
CC

Hi Chris,

I know that the GI Joe brand has a huge following which, I suspect, is larger than the toy soldier world we are talking about. The 1:18th stuff is just bigger dolls in my view. When it comes to hard core toy soldier collectors, they are the ones who are on this Forum (and post), attend the shows, subscribe to the magazines, and buy toy soldiers, at least occasionally, from dealers, shops, or on eBay. I gave a Bastion Models set of Imperial Chinese Boxer Rebellion Infantry to a Chinese born neurologist I know. He has them on display in his San Marino living room, but in no way do I consider him to be a toy soldier collector. Still friends!

 

[ucla1967]

This topic resurfaces from time to time.

You have to be careful, when looking at the number of registered members, and then extrapolating that to the number of collectors in the world. For one thing, there are other toy soldier, and model figure forums, so we'd have to account for how many of our members are members elsewhere, or aren't, and how many members at each site are members only at that site. Also, our count is inflated a little by spammers, and by folks who find the forum, but only post once or twice, someone who's inherited a set of toy soldiers and is looking for help to identify it and dispose of it, but who won't be back after that. Also, not everyone in the hobby has Internet access, or has time to spend online on a forum.

But it's possible to estimate. Take into account membership, with the caveats; show attendance; and the numbers of editions that the major manufacturers put out, and it's possible to get a rough estimate, I suppose.

I estimate, thought, that there are fewer toy soldier collectors than model figure painters and collectors (though there is overlap) or scale modelers, or wargamers.

Prost!
Brad

Brad,

You are right on. I too am struck by the large number of Forum members who have zero posts. I have been attending both the West Coaster and Chicago shows for 20 years (20 times and 17 times, respectively) and I notice how many of us are the same, relatively small group of collectors. About six years ago, I founded a group which I call The Southern California Toy Soldier Collectors Society. There are only about 30 of us in the group and only about a dozen of us regularly attend our get togethers. Some have never attended. I have had an announcement in TS&MF magazine under society meetings for years inviting collectors to join us with zero results. I have also placed flyers on the sign-in tables at the West Coaster and believe only one person joined us from that effort. This is a dying hobby in the long run. I wouldn't doubt it at all, if there were more figure painters, war gamers, or scale modelers than collectors.

 

[Partner]

Another gauge, as to the size of the hobby, may be how many other collectors you know personally .In my case it is one . He is major collector but does not participate in the forum . He does however visit the Westcoaster show since his son lives in Hollywood .
Kirk

PS Just got back from visiting a wool store :redface2:

 

[ucla1967]

Another gauge, as to the size of the hobby, may be how many other collectors you know personally .In my case it is one . He is major collector but does not participate in the forum . He does however visit the Westcoaster show since his son lives in Hollywood .
Kirk

PS Just got back from visiting a wool store :redface2:

Hi Kirk,

Before I started attending the Toy Soldier Shows, I did not know a single collector and I live in the greater Los Angeles area. Is your friend coming out to the West Coaster this year?

 

[waynepoo]

Wondered why I always seemed to hear some bleating in the background when reading your posts!! {sm4}{sm4}

that's cute!!

I have also more home made woolly jumpers (sweaters you yanks call them) than you can shack a stick at, where here the lowest temp is maybe 10c about three times a year. women??^&grin{sm4}
Wayne

 

[Jack]

I have to share my man cave once a week with a knitting club of ten women, so don't feel you're alone, I'm surrounded by wool{sm2}{sm2}{sm2}{sm2}
Wayne.

You must admit though, it was kind of them to let you join!

 

[waynepoo]

You must admit though, it was kind of them to let you join!

Yes considering I'm not a Kiwi. :rolleyes2::wink2:
Wayne.

 

[Jack]

Yes considering I'm not a Kiwi. :rolleyes2::wink2:
Wayne.

I hope you are not relying on this post to get promoted as it is not long for the forum!