SELL TOY CO. - Last Man Standing? (1 Viewer)

[Plastic General]

Will SELL TOY Co. be the last company standing that produces 1:32 WWII vehicles?
Well, from the rumours, its starting to look that way.
I just read on another forum that UNIMAX is cancelling all plans for new product this year.
I've been saying for years that the people behind FOV nether have creative solutions or have the will to implement them.
SO, this leaves things wide open for SELL TOY Co. to do things right and if they do, they can have the WHOLE 1:32 vehicle market all to themselves!

MY PERSONAL HOPES for Sell Toy:
* Good variety of well sculpted and scaled 1:32, WWII plastic vehicles, as good or better than what Airfix did.
* Plastic Vehicles with Good Prices!
* Releasing all the IMPORTANT TANKS that have NOT already been done and the important turret variants.
* Regularity in its releases.
* And a GOOD, PROFESSIONAL LOOKING WEBSITE with great photos that's easy to navigate and order from.

VOTING POLLS are an easy way for market research.
Give the collectors a chance to inform you what excites them the most?

(EXAMPLE) Check Mark your choice for our next release.
M-10 * JS-II * PUMA * CHAR-B. A few months later, announce the winner. That's how to avoid financial flops.

I really wanna see SELL TOY Co. succeed, so now is their big chance to take it ALL!

Plastic General

 

[binder001]

On one hand I hope they succeed. On the other hand, I will miss the GOOD 1/32nd vehicles with seperate parts and full running gear. The Sell Toy Jagdpanzer looks fine until I looked at the "tracks" and wheels - simple lumps of plastic. If one has watched the actions of FoV it seems like a ridderless company. They did some nice 1/32nd armor and trucks, then they dabbled in 1/18th, then they dabbled in 1/72 planes and tanks, then they put out a line of ships. It's like they had a monthly meeting and went with the concensus about what new products they would produce. They tried to establish a relationship with Wal Mart and some other mass marketers but the military miniatures market isn't going to move millions of units off the shelf.

Hopefully Sell Toys will improve their product and offer some reasonably priced items to the entry level collectors.

 

[Warrior]

Forces of Valor has been taking on water for a couple of years now, new releases have virtually ground to a halt and all they do is reissue vehicles with new packaging or different paint schemes, not to mention their prices have spiked, upwards of 80.00 now for a vehicle.

Well, the 80.00 is actually not suggested retail, but based on their discount structure, that is where they should be priced, naturally you've got the ham and eggers out there peddling them for 10.00 over cost just to turn inventory, always a brilliant business strategy.

They recently sent out emails informing dealers that they will no longer be available direct, they've appointed a middle man as their wholesaler, which means the discount will drop now as well so he can get his piece of the pie.

Adios Forces of Valor, nice knowing you.

Their slow backslide out of the business, the passing of 21st Century toys and the dramatic new production cut backs from 1/72nd scale diecast companies such as Dragon, Hobby Master, Panzerstahl and others tells me one thing; it's simply not profitable enough to keep cranking out new vehicles, the market/sales volume just is not there.

Back when FOV was humming along, I'd order 10 cases or so of each new vehicle as I had the customer base to warrant it; now, I order maybe two cases of a new vehicle and I end up sitting on a few even at that. Same deal on the 1/72nd diecast; used to order 24 or so of each new tank, now I order 5 or 6 and again, end up with some left over that I hump from show to show until I just blow them out and move on.

 

[theBaron]

...Their slow backslide out of the business, the passing of 21st Century toys and the dramatic new production cut backs from 1/72nd scale diecast companies such as Dragon, Hobby Master, Panzerstahl and others tells me one thing; it's simply not profitable enough to keep cranking out new vehicles, the market/sales volume just is not there.

Back when FOV was humming along, I'd order 10 cases or so of each new vehicle as I had the customer base to warrant it; now, I order maybe two cases of a new vehicle and I end up sitting on a few even at that. Same deal on the 1/72nd diecast; used to order 24 or so of each new tank, now I order 5 or 6 and again, end up with some left over that I hump from show to show until I just blow them out and move on...

I'm probably stating the obvious, but that's probably why Walmart stopped carrying them. I wouldn't be surprised if they just weren't selling enough to warrant the shelf space.

Prost!
Brad

 

[gk5717]

I was going to post pretty much what George said, unfortunately the market is just not there. As for this new line, much to toy like for my taste.
Gary

 

[Warrior]

I'm probably stating the obvious, but that's probably why Walmart stopped carrying them. I wouldn't be surprised if they just weren't selling enough to warrant the shelf space.

Prost!
Brad

I think most people have zero clue how the whole mass merchandising concept works.

Try this one on for size;

Step number one, you have to have packaging that is suitable for a mass merchandiser, including a UPC code. If you don't have the proper packaging or UPC codes in place already, you have to spend the money to get the items packaged and coded, that is on you, the seller.

Step number two, you are given a certain amount of shelf space per store to shoehorn your goods onto.

Step number three, you have to commit to sending stock to X number of stores and that is on you, so you have to either have sufficient stock on hand or produce enough to stock the stores. Think about that one for a minute.

Step number four, here's the clincher; you have about TWO MONTHS to sell sufficent amounts for the company, ie, Walmart, Target, etc, etc, to make it worth THEIR while to continue carrying the goods.

And guess what fellas; if they determine the item/items are not sales worthy, they pull the plug and pallet up your goods, it's now up to YOU to arrange pick up, that's on YOUR nickel. You have a certain amount of time to do so and if you don't into the dumpsters it goes.

It's all well and good to sit here and talk about this should be produced, that should be produced, Company X has the whole market to themselves, this needs to be in stores, etc, etc, but for the 4,645th time; this is a niche hobby, it's not set up for mass merchandising at this point, there is simply not enough demand for the goods across the country.

Why do you think producers of plastic sets like CTS, TSSD, Paragon, Hat, Italieri, Austin, etc, etc, wholesale their goods to other dealers instead of holding them and selling them all for themselves?

They do so to recoup a portion of their investments, mostly so they can fund the next project.

Ask Nick from TSSD how many bags of little plastic army guys he had to sell before he made nickel ONE of profit; you'd be blown away at the answer.

I have massive amounts of respect for anyone who produces their own range of figures, it costs a **** ton of money to do it; it's truly a labor of love as the risk is huge, the reward is small.

 

[theBaron]

Your description, George, makes me realize that our hobby isn't too far removed from the sci-fi/anime resin figure market, with a couple of large producers, that is, they're set up to make a run of a 1000 kits or so, and a large number of garage kit producers, many of whom are hobbyists who learned to sculpt, mold, cast, and they sell their figures in very small runs. In that market, though, I think demand is higher, there are more individual consumers, and that, along with the relative simplicity of the technology and what seems to be an Asian cultural proclivity to ignore copyrights, enabled a thriving pirate recast industry.

We've got recasters, too, but not nearly as much as the sci-fi/anime/fantasy resin market, I think because working with metal is inherently more labor- and energy-intensive than casting in resin.

 

[Plastic General]

I'm just speculating.
If "SELL TOY" really gets the hang of it and does some really nice, accurate and decently detailed 1:32 plastic vehicles,
they could probably sell them for $30 - $35 each.
Maybe even $40 if they include a commander figure?
Also, if it was a TANK that had a few different TURRETS, it would be another way of increasing sales and profits.
Finally "selling them bulk" to playset dealers would be the last feeding frenzy.
Sell Toy has a built in costumer with me, as long as they do something that 21st Cent & FOV haven't already done.

Plastic General


SHERMAN with ROUND HULL or buy the version with Rockets? Or BOTH!


Japanese CHE-HA early or late turret? or BOTH!


US M-10 or JACKSON turret


The T-34 actually had 3 different turrets


FOV did the KV-1 but didn't do the obvious = KV-2

 

[Warrior]

CTS vehicles sell for about 15.00 each, although they are not 1/32nd scale. Some are very close.

The BMC vehicles retail for what, 10.00 each and are very well detailed, the Airfix reissues are 30.00 each.

So 20.00 to 30.00 sounds about right, but they'd have to be very well detailed to go for 30.00; by adding a tank commander, I don't think you can get another 10.00 for a tank.

Maybe the way to do it would be your idea of different turrets; sell them for 40.00 and give the customer two different turrets with the tank so they could do an either/or option.

If they retail for say 25.00 and you wholesale them to other dealers at 12.50 and say your actual production cost per tank is 5.00, you're making about 7.00 per tank on the majority of the tanks you sell as again, wholesaling allows you to move in volume, retail you sell by the unit, not the case.

Really not sure how big the unpainted plastic tank market is at this point; we've already proven the painted diecast market is not very big.................

 

[Plastic General]

I imagine that I speak for "most" serious plastic WWII collectors, "we want proper 1:32 scale vehicles" NOT CTS scale.
"SOME" BMC stuff is passable, except the King Tiger and the Sherman.
Besides, FOV, 21st did them better!
If PLAY TOY can find that right level of detail and accuracy (30% better than AIRFIX) then they'll be hitting the right spot.
And a commander figure in a little baggie couldn't hurt ether, its worth the extra $5. It'll make the piece feel more complete and kind of like an unpainted Forces of Valour.

Would you guys pay $35 for that?! I would!

Plastic General

 

[larso]

' "SOME" BMC stuff is passable, except the King Tiger and the Sherman.'

I really like these two and think they work great with all my plastics. I do agree about using a number of turrets so that a larger number of tanks can be produced - Pz IV, Wirblewind, Ostwind etc. I haven't had a close look at the Jagdpanzer chassis but I don't care if it's not perfect. I'd love to see it used as the basis for a Hummel.

From what I've read of George's posts demand for plastic seems to be in decline, so I'd be grateful for anything to be honest.

 

[Mirof]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

are you speaking of this SELL Toy ; http://selltoyco.com/ ????

 

[larso]

Yep! Erwin has a PZ IV tank destroyer coming out this month.

 

[binder001]

I'm just speculating.
View attachment 165720
SHERMAN with ROUND HULL or buy the version with Rockets? Or BOTH!

View attachment 165721
Japanese CHE-HA early or late turret? or BOTH!

View attachment 165722
US M-10 or JACKSON turret

View attachment 165723
The T-34 actually had 3 different turrets

View attachment 165724
FOV did the KV-1 but didn't do the obvious = KV-2

Nice ideas, but to further fragment our already small hobby, some people care about the the accuracy and others don't. Some of us realize that it's often more than a turret change, and other will buy whatever you put in front of them. Like the M10 or "Jackson" turret. First, the only place I ever heard an M36 refered to as a Jackson is in model circles. Second, the versions of the M10 and M36 that saw action were slightly different hulls due to different engines. Some people won't care, others will shy away from the purchase because of the inaccuracy. The "round hull" Sherman was the M4A1. That would be an excellent choice for a 75mm tank, but they did a major hull revision for the 76mm version. Rocket launchers were supplied as kits that were adapted to a number of M4 types.

Unfortunately the BMC Sherman is a real POS. The sad point is that the version they tried to create would have been a good one for your idea of a basic hull with different turrets. The late M4A3 hull (the "Wet Stowage" version) came to Europe in the late summer thru fall of 1944, to the Pacific slightly later and to Italy in 1945. The late M4A3 hull carried turrets with 75mm guns, 76mm guns, 105mm howitzers, and was used as a basis for the short run of M36B1 tank destroyers (90mm turret on M4A3 hull, only 187 built). That same hull formed the basis for the M4A3E2 assault tank and the M4A3E8 medium tanks with wider tracks.

I have nothing against plastic tanks, in fact I rather prefer them over diecast as I like to make changes or kitbash them and the diecast metal is a royal pain to cut and shape. I am just hoping for plastic tanks that are better molded than the Marx tanks that I bought as a kid.

Gary B.

 

[fritz]

Sell toy as mentioned before will go and do most as close possible to many of solution and wishes express by many of you (included PG).The idea of varied turret or parts in same chassis has been taken already in future release and will be implemented as was in part done in first model coming(JagPanzer IV L/70 (V) (Sd.Kfz.162)with Pak 42 L/70 long gun.
As you will notice or any historical pro accurate or “picky” collector ;this specific war machine was done in three main variant and the back side(exhaust) system varied in later models done. The front and long cannon barrel is mid production(more models /chassis done). Heavier long barreled gun and thick frontal amour made the nose extremely heavy and both vehicles less mobile . This problem was partially rectified by fitting steel-rimmed wheels at the first two wheel stations in IV/70(V) and on the first four wheel stations in IV/70(A) instead of rubber ones that could not handle the weight with front (IF look closely the different wheels is seen in this TOY model as well!!).My main idea was to give you the mid model-(more used), to use in scenes facing the front,side of armor(If you just cut a quarter of cannon that you will notice could be easy done as half barrel is hollow intentional done for that purpose and for more realism that others done by any other company where cannon tip is cover/sealed.).It will give you the early model with short cannon( MODELJag panzer IV (Sd.Kfz.162 with 75mm-caliber cannon L/48 armed with 75mm Pak 39 L/43 gun without muzzle break )and with 7.5*cm Pak 39 L/48 with muzzle.
That pretty much used the same chassis.(Both model early and mid used same BACK exhaust till later models change it)if you are not too worry about this minor detail you will pass on. If you are worry, sorry you may need to get a kit to-be accurate 100%.
Using same back exhaust a total of 1026 chassis were done. Additional 673 same chassis BUT with different minor back exhaust were done from 11/03/1944 till April 1945. All these model were used in the Normandy later action till end of the war.
Later 3er model(Panzer IV/70 (A) (Sd.Kfz.162/1)will not be done as was only produced in minor numbers(278) and required an all new elevated chassis.
The poor track detail is not too far from same quality on CTS/BMC and is because of the solid one mold piece done in my armors. Airfix more complex three mold pieces are more detail ,still the cannon are not hollowed and mounted on “Wheels!” with few non historical to date model match. I had done in my first model what I could possible do as best. Improvement will come,suggestion as that correct indicated on models not done before and else will be definitely taken in consideration as we speak and new model are being tested already. I will not go any were near the high prices of FV ...but will be over BMC and CTS. If crews are to be done; will be for any self propelled artillery armor and antitank field cannons planed and it will increase price.
Scale was a bit increase in very minor detail from real 1.32 to close 1.30 to adapt all as close to match new generation soldiers done by TSSD,FV else.
Last about color choices here is an historical data from where I decide to make it . Not as after October 1944 all armor base shade colors in Grey tones were discontinued for RAL 6002/6003/6004 and others. Then camouflage tones/shades and spot add on field or back front line areas as per season terrain requirement.
Mine were done in RAL 6002-6004 BASE COLOR to be painted over as you like/wish.
Hope understand my historical fact point and data. If you will like better explanation you may contact the Curator of Munster Museum in Germany. With whom I did my historical research.

To make every body happy is my goal,will never be accomplished 100% but I will do my best to stand and fight and give you all my best.!!

 

[binder001]

Fritz,

Thanks for the information. You have done your homework. I will be quite interested to see you tank and future vehicles.

Gary Binder
Waverly, Nebraska

 

[Oldallamerican]

It appears to me that "Fritz" is trying to make the best possible product and keep it at a price that is affordable to most hobbyists. I really loved FOV/21st C vehicles, but for one could never see paying upwards of $100 for a single vehicle (yes, I'm a cheap sucker). I have accumulated a fairly nice collection of them but picked them up at a bargain occasionally on ebay - my wife picked up a rather large collection for me for $100 at the Texas Show a few years back from a fellow who was just trying to get rid of them. I don't believe I'll ever get a deal like that again. But am happy with them.

I suppose it's all a matter of what you are looking for, I guess. I thought (and still think) the CTS tanks were a marked improvement over the Marx tanks we played with as kids, which were waaaay too small and I, for one wouldn't have wanted to be in that Panther when the main gun fired. But we took what we had and had a ball. The CTS tanks were a bit larger, more in scale and way more accurate than their predecessors. But they were meant to be toys to be played with. They paint up quite well, too and in making dioramas I can put them in the rear of a pic and it gives the illusion of distance. BMC were nice again for what they are, toys to be played with and really inexpensive. I have no problem handing one of my BMC Shermans to one of my grandkids and letting him play on the floor. My 21st century vehicles are safely put away. I am even reluctant to handle them too much. But they ARE pretty to look at.

Fritz is trying to do something here that I know many of us have dreamt of but few have had the wherewithal or the nerve to do - put his own money on the line to produce the military miniatures we all love. As he has said, he is learning as he goes and is working out kinks. I have no doubt his next project will be an improvement over his first (but for what I believe this tank is meant to be it's not a bad first outing). I would never recommend anyone buying trash - if that was the case my closets would be full of the Hong Kong stuff sold in the Dollar Stores - but I think his first product will be good enough that with a little imagination can be worked with to fill a gap - while at the same time we won't mind giving to our kids to actually play with. Maybe we'll get some younger folks into our aging hobby. Bravo!

 

[larso]

I think this will work brilliantly with my unpainted plastic soldiers. I'm really looking forward to having a few for games on the floor with my 5yo son!

 

[Plastic General]

I think this will work brilliantly with my unpainted plastic soldiers. I'm really looking forward to having a few for games on the floor with my 5yo son!

Without trying to sound cynical, if you want to play on the floor with the kids, wouldn't CTS TANKS be sufficient?
The adult collectors on this forum are really hoping SELL TOY'S product will satisfy our standards of acceptable realism and accuracy, at least an 8/10 ?
Little kids don't care if they have a tank fighting a robot.

Plastic General

 

[Jay]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

are you speaking of this SELL Toy ; http://selltoyco.com/ ????

Very difficult site to work through. I gave up after ten minutes, which is not good for their business.