So.... (1 Viewer)

[Drum]

I always see people on this subforum "viewing" yet it is a pretty quiet corner of this website here in the Glossy/Imperial subforum.

So, in the interest of fostering some discussion, I would pose a few questions for you Imperial devotees.

- How important is it to you that your Imperial Productions figures are all entirely designed and handmade by a NZ family?

- Would you still buy Imperial Productions figures if they were simply designed and sculpted by David Cowe, but were actually made/painted/packaged somewhere else... say on the Pacific Rim somewhere?

- Does it make any difference to you how many of each figure set are made? (For example, does your pride of ownership increase if you know your set is 1 of 1000 as opposed to 1 of 10,000?)

If you can, set aside any considerations or predictions of diminished quality under this scenario and assume that the figures would be of the same high quality as they are currently.

Food for thought.

Cheers,
Drum

PS: Please do not read this as any indication of intention on the part of the Cowes or Imperial Production. I am not doing market research... I am merely asking for your thoughts.

 

[churchmouse1]

1) Certainly I would prefer a piece hand crafted by the family over mass-produced Chinese figures. But, as some of our matte manufacturers have discovered, the quality of Chinese painting has improved by great strides. I do struggle with reservations about buying Chinese products.

2) I reckon I would, although Imperials are going steady for reasonable prices on eBay. I guess I'd probably pick up one "original" of each set in the series I collect on eBay, and buy Chinese duplicate add-on sets to fill out my battalions. (An add-on set for the Crimean War French Zouaves would be appreciated.)

3) Numbers don't matter for me too much, because I'm not buying as an investment per se. However, it does hurt when you pay retail price for an item only to see a firesale later on because the manufacturer didn't gauge demand properly.

Dave

 

[VIRIATO]

It's hard to imagine anyone else producing/painting Imperial figures to the same unbelievable standard that the Cowes manage. But if possible I wouldn't object to others doing that (especially somewhere in Europe^&grin) and production numbers would really mean nothing to me.
But the fact that Imperial are something of a cottage manufacturer, made by such nice people, is indeed part of the charm these wonderful figures have. There is also something special about the hunting for these figures... Hard to imagine the same with mass production. But again if the quality and charm remain I'd be happy to follow suit.
That said, I can only remember one mass manufacturer that has been producing fantastic glossy figures, and that's Britains (the classic collection), but even these are very limited ranges, one at a time, etc... I guess it's too big a company, too much at stake, smaller room for glossy artistry/risk...The Hockers, Beau Gestes, Little Legions, Trophys, Fusilier/Tommy Atkins, Somersets are all cottage manufacturers, they wouldn't be what they are if they resorted to mass production. It's a case of small being beautiful...
With Imperial (the very best glossies IMHO), maybe it might be achieved to ensure production will go on at a slightly bigger scale, not so ultra dependent on David and Kay, without compromising quality, something that might make it easier for the collector to collect their works of art. Having arrived late at Imperial collecting, I would certainly collect Imperial and no other brands if I wouldn't have to chase retired sets on E-bay... A matter of achievability and safe supply of what one wants. Maybe Beau Geste, having a number of trained people producing their figures, would be a good example of what can be done without compromising their uniqueness.


Paulo

 

[Drum]

Those are some excellent and thoughtful answers above.

Sort of what I expected, but also more forgiving to the idea of farming out to subcontractors than I would have guessed too.

There was a time when Imperial ramped up production to include several employees, painstakingly vetted and trained by Kay. As I have the benefit of my dear old Dad's contemporaneously collected trove, I can tell you that during their most active periods, their quality dropped, ever so slightly.

When one compares those figures made during the late 80's-early 90's to those recent figures that have all been painted by the unquestionably talented hands of Kay and her daughters... well, the recently produced figures are simply masterpieces of the art of the toy soldier.

Isn't it a shame that popularity seems to necessitate a certain attrition in quality?

Anyway, I love to consider the lack of numbers. It definitely pleases me and increases my pride of ownership in anything if I think of it as "rare" relative to anything else. Call it the "Antiques Roadshow disease"... even though this collection will never be sold during my lifetime. (knocking on wood as I type that)

Cheers,
D

 

[Yosmanos]

A very thought provoking set of questions. In my view, the toy soldier art is very much like other art, in that the combination of sculpting and painting reflect a unique and distinctive style that is the fingerprint of the artist/s. I think any change therefore dictates a change in finished product that may not necessarily be better (if that is at all possible with Imperial), or worse, but simply different.
The exception would be if some of the process were automated, which to my mind, detracts (for me) from the "artistic" element of toy soldiers.

I guess that's why I collect Imperial exclusively (nothing to do with budget of course), because their style and how they tread the line between detail and stylisation appeals to me on an aesthetic level. Contrast this with Hocker whose style appears to me to be close to early Herge (Tintin) art which I find quite endearing yet completely different to Imperial. The aesthetic connection is why I can't get enthusiastic about Britains or more "realistic" makers, although I am the first to recognise they are all clearly fine works in their own way.

I am also biased in that I have a local NZ affinity for the Greytown company who epitomise the Kiwi "produce the best in the world from our back garden" approach that resonates with me.

I will be sad to see the day when Imperial ceases production, but if they were to continue in some changed fashion, with different hand painting artists I would certainly continue to collect until the quality or artistic direction changed. Then I would concentrate on searching out the old sets. The prospect of automated production and painting leaves me cold.

Perhaps we collectors should put a consortium together to take over from the Cowes and keep the Imperial tradition alive, and quit our day jobs to indulge our passions.

 

[vandilay]

All you guys have put it better than me, but on a personal level
I like the fact they are made here , its great to see such high
quality figures being produced locally .
And although my collection is complete [barring anything new or multiples] ,
I never miss a chance to look in the shop if I am in Greytown .

I would still collect if David and Kay where still running the buisness and they
where produced elsewhere.

Ltd editions do not hold any special appeal for me , I guess its nice to have
something rare but it doesnt worry me if my favourite piece exists in the thousands .

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

As usual a great set of answers to the questions put forth by Drum. I only have a few Imperials and I totally love them they are probably the 2nd Favoritte of mine in my collection. I am always looking for others to add but I have to admitt that I am probably a bit too thrifty and dont want to spend a ton on any one set. Only one exception for this is the Set that my friend Vandilay beat me too this past year in San Deigo. I am still hunting for it and will likely have to pay the price because of my lack of foresight when they were still in production.

That said I am trilled they are produced in NZ and hope they remain there. I dont think they would be as great if they were produced elsewhere. Plus it gives me hope that I may get to see where the magic occurs if I can find a way to get back to NZ. My wife and I really loved it on our honeymoon!

As for the numbers game that so many makers like to play now adays I would really rather have the sets available to get as opposed to seeing them disappear so rapidly that the only place to find them is on ebay and at vastly higher prices. I wish we could have sets available for years as opposed to the weeks in some cases to months game we deal with these days. This would be a lot better for the building of the bigger displays that some of the eras really need to make the display look right.

I second the request for some more Crimean Units that have been ignored by so many makers.

Dave

 

[VIRIATO]

There was a time when Imperial ramped up production to include several employees, painstakingly vetted and trained by Kay. As I have the benefit of my dear old Dad's contemporaneously collected trove, I can tell you that during their most active periods, their quality dropped, ever so slightly.

When one compares those figures made during the late 80's-early 90's to those recent figures that have all been painted by the unquestionably talented hands of Kay and her daughters... well, the recently produced figures are simply masterpieces of the art of the toy soldier.


D

I knew about the employees time, but really wasn't aware of a quality drop. My collection is mostly composed of more recent sets, hence my ignorance about this. Many thanks for shedding some light on this Imperial period:wink2:!

Paulo

 

[Drum]

More excellent replies.

I hasten to add that my comment about a drop in quality is relatively speaking. I should be more clear. Currently, it is just David and Kay Cowe that are doing all or most of the work. I believe they are being intermittently aided by their children to varying degrees now too.

During the period I mean, they had perhaps 6-10 employees. Maybe a few fewer. This occurred during the period when Imperial was at its zenith of popularity. They were cranking out zulus by the armload and David was sculpting like crazy. All of the forming and painting were done by his employees and he was free to create.

The drop in quality was not dramatic and, if we did not have the most recent excellence to compare with, then it would not be a drop in quality at all. It was mostly little things... one trooper in a set who is missing a painted badge or maybe a mustache that all the others have.

In any higher volume scenario, I can see how quality control will suffer somewhat. In the case of Imperial Productions, it did not suffer much.

Ironically, it was the expansion to include non-familial employees that lead to the first closing of the shop, albeit indirectly. When those unscrupled former employees broke off and opened Regal just down the street, I know that the Cowes felt betrayed and decided that the toy soldier world was not for them any longer.

Happily, that situation is now water under the bridge and Imperial is back and producing again. I, for one, wish that David could be released from production so that he could do more sculpts for us, but alas, one cannot have one's cake and eat it too, often, so there we are.

Interesting discussion this.

D

 

[Louis Badolato]

I still have about 50 sets of Imperial in my collection (I have traded away a dozen or so). Mine were all bought in the mid-1990's. I even have 8 Cameron Highlanders from one of the action Heirloom sets (Steve Balkan from Burlington Antique Toys sold off one piecemeal).

I have never noticed a single defect or lack of quality in any of them. In my humble opinion Imperial were the most beautiful glossy figures I've seen to date (perhaps equalled by some of the recent Beau Geste releases). If anything, for me they were a little too clean and perfect. If it wasn't for the fact that they are such little works of art, they would be the most perfect toy soldiers for children to play with, clean, bright and elegant.

 

[dkelly]

Interesting questions and responses. A more pressing question for me is when we will see some new figures? Aside from the hunting series (which is outside my collection area), Imperial hasn't made any new sets since Dec. 2008 (sets 149 and 150 for the fantastic Nap series). I have made requests to David since then to set aside producing old sets and get on with some new ones, but no luck. I'm losing hope he is going to new sets. I absolutely love my huge Imperial collection, but it would be great to see 2 new sets a year in some of the ranges he is still doing - Naps, Crimea, Sudan. I genuinely believe that if more people on this forum -- other than myself and Drum -- ask for it David might be motivated to turn out some new sets. Please lobby him. I know that he really wants to do it. We just need to give him a push.

Dan

 

[Al Fisher]

I'm a latecomer to this discussion, so please excuse me if I repeat what someone else has said. First, let me say that it's rare to find such a rational and constructive discussion. Second, let me say that Imperial figures are among the best I've ever purchased. I have most of the "Town and Around" figures and they will go to my granddaughter when she is o;d enough to appreciate them. They are exquisite!

As a collector who collects simply for the joy of having certain figures, it doesn't matter to me if you make 100 or 10,000 as long as I can get what I want at a reasonable price. I collect for fun, not as an investment.

Having cast and painted many figures, I continue to be astounded at the perfection Imperial achieves. Yes, quality is important, but the unniqueness (if there is such a word) of your figures is more so.

Keep to your standards as best you can and let us enjoy the results!

Bosun Al