Sporrans in the Napoleonic era? (1 Viewer)

[Hazebrouck]

Hoping that a Napoleonic buff might be able to clarify this uniform query for me!

I'm painting an old Stadden I purchased recently as a Gordon Highlander. The figure is shown in this thread-

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/fo...ese-Hinton-Hunt-figures&highlight=hinton+hunt

I have a few references for uniforms, some showing sporrans being worn, others not.

1) Can someone confirm who wore them and who didn't?

I'm guessing other ranks did not wear them and pipers, nco's and officers wore them? Or did other ranks remove them for battle?

2) Is the six tassle sporran correct for a Gordon highlander?

Help!

Scott

 

[Arnhemjim]

Hoping that a Napoleonic buff might be able to clarify this uniform query for me!

I'm painting an old Stadden I purchased recently as a Gordon Highlander. The figure is shown in this thread-

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/fo...ese-Hinton-Hunt-figures&highlight=hinton+hunt

I have a few references for uniforms, some showing sporrans being worn, others not.

1) Can someone confirm who wore them and who didn't?

I'm guessing other ranks did not wear them and pipers, nco's and officers wore them? Or did other ranks remove them for battle?

2) Is the six tassle sporran correct for a Gordon highlander?

Help!

Scott

Hello Scott,
The enclosed attachment is scanned from THE LIFE OF A REGIMENT, The History of the Gordon Highlanders, From its Formation in 1794 to 1816, LCol Greenhill Gardyne, David Douglas, Edinburgh, 1901, Vol.1 (First Edition). Based upon the plate and discussion in the text, sporrans were normally not wore into battle. However for other orders of dress the six tassle (tailed) sporran is correct for the 92nd Regiment of Foot (Gordon Highlanders). You may also want to note the oval brass plates on the bayonet cross belts. Other than for contemporary standing orders, which were researched for the book, I believe this is as close as you are going to come to original source documentation. Note R. Simkin is the artist. Apologies for the slight blurring, had to do some severe resizing in Photoshop in order to conform to Forum attachment limits. Hope this helps.
Yours aye,
Jim Gordon (aka Arnhem Jim)
Arizona Territory

 

[Hazebrouck]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Jim. I'll take that as an explanation. None of the books I have explain that and yet showing it being worn and it missing. So that clears up what wasn't explained!

The oval brass plate is also duly noted. The water bottles also appear grey in the illustration, whereas newer sources have them a blue-grey.

Those Richard Simkin's illustrations are great!

Regards,

Scott

 

[johnnybach]

Just sounding a note of caution on Other Ranks sporrans around 1815 (Waterloo) Scott. As your guy is wearing a kilt and carrying a bundook - looks like he isn't an officer.

I also have some pics by Richard Simkin - which shows Officers using the six tassel sporran, as mentioned by Jim - but OR's having a much plainer affair with five black tassels on a plain white bag ( two on top and three below). These watercolour pics are dated from 1812 through1838 - and also later on.

I can't post them today - as I am still awaiting delivery of a new lap-top - and my scanner is out of action until it arrives. As mentioned before, we're off the beaten track here - but sixteen days from ordering - so far and it still hasn't arrived yet!!

Musicians have the same layout for their sporran - but 5 red tassels instead of black. Lovely picture from Jim though - but not showing any sporrans on the fighting men of the Gordons at the time - as doubtless had them removed for a scrap!. If you can hang on until I post the pics - you will have a better idea of what I am writing about.

I will post them once I get my (very impatient) hands on my new lap-top - but the local delivery agent can't seem to find the house!!! Johnnybach

 

[Arnhemjim]

Hello Scott,
You may want to review, or even purchase the book, SOLDIERS' ACCOUTREMENTS OF THE BRITISH ARMY 1750-1900, P. Turner, Crosswood Press, Ramsbury Marlborough, 2006, ISBN 10 1 86126 883 1. According to Turner's research the waterbottles were definitely a blue-grey. I didn't realize how much detail you needed regarding the sporran. Hope these attachments help. They are from Vol. II of Life of a Regiment. Please forgive the redundancy the Attachment Manager is a royal pain!
Yours aye,
Jim

 

[Ken & Ericka Osen/H&A Studio]

I have personally inspected several wooden canteens from this period and they were all blue-gray in color. A few were a bit darker, but this could be from oxidation over all of these years. The same pattern canteens from later dates, including ones purchased from suppliers in the UK and used by combatants here during the ACW are in the same color range. The surviving leather carrying straps when they are present, all appear to be natural tanned leather darkened with age.
Hope this helps.
Ken

 

[Hazebrouck]

Just sounding a note of caution on Other Ranks sporrans around 1815 (Waterloo) Scott. As your guy is wearing a kilt and carrying a bundook - looks like he isn't an officer.

Bundook! Funny how those old words from the Raj seem to linger.

Johnny and Jim,

I can wait as I'm a slow painter. I'm coming to the conclusion that this figure is more likely to be Black Watch. I found this image of some re-enactors and the figure seems to match their uniform-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/topcat_angel/2163871809/

I know you can't rely heavily on a photo of re-enactors but it's a good match.
In a way I'm dictated by the original casting, so maybe there won't be a yellow stripe on the government tartan after all.

Jim,

Thanks for that book title. If more Napoleonics appear in my collection it might be necessary.

Ken,

I agree. All my sources show the waterbottles as a blue-grey with white lettering to identify regiments.

Scott

 

[Obee]

Hi,

just to confuse things even more,

this plate, taken from a book published in the Napoleonic times, shows a Black Watch and Gordon, bith wearing sporrans.

I've got the book with the plates, but this one comes from the NYPL The Vinkhuijzen Collection of Military Costume Illustration which has a whole load of images of military uniforms

http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/explore/dgexplore.cfm?col_id=206

regards,

John

 

[Ken & Ericka Osen/H&A Studio]

Many of the illustrations of Charles Hamilton Smith have questionable details even though he was an active military officer from the period. Some details represented were based on regulations, or early versions of uniform items that were changed shortly after introduction.
This period is also known for the general lack of uniformity between regiments, especially those on foreign service. If you have ever looked at period inspection returns you will soon see this. Reconstructions from these early periods can be tricky at best.
With that said these illustrations are still a great primary resource... just don't take every detail literally.
Ken

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Ken makes an excellent point...that being that despite inconsitencies in uniform accoutrements during the Napoleonic period, there is probably as much published misinformation as there is well established and supported primary research. You can add into that mix the sometimes necessary adaptations made on campaign when supply was short and ingenuity required. It is for this reason that I have often favored Ian Fletcher's "Napoleonc Wars - Wellington's Army," from the Brassey's History of Uniforms series. No doubt you will pore over many contradictory publications, each seemingly as authoritative as the next. So in the end, after synthesizing all that you have read, you really have to make a judgment call and rationalize the choices you make in your painting.

Over the years, I have painted figures, read a new publication...repainted...read another...repainted...and ended up where I started...I am starting to like the idea of raw pewter.

With that said, two things are for sure...no sporrans in combat and those ubiquitous blue/grey canteens were standard among all regiments (though sometimes replaced with random water bottle designs on the Peninsula when supply was short).

 

[Hazebrouck]

No doubt you will pore over many contradictory publications, each seemingly as authoritative as the next. So in the end, after synthesizing all that you have read, you really have to make a judgment call and rationalize the choices you make in your painting.

Thanks Nicholas, John, Ken and Jim.

You are right Nicholas, I've nearly finished the figure and have gone with what seems right! Will post an image once he is done.

Scott

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Scott - sorry for the delay in getting back to you - I have had computer/scanner problems. I realise that your figure has been finished - but I promised to show you some Gordons by Richard Simkins - in the time period around Waterloo - so here goes. Keep 'em for the future perhaps - given the warnings you have already had! Both plates are from a fabulous book - by W.Y.Carmen (1985) entitled " Richard Simkin's Uniforms of the British Army: The Infantry Regiments" (ISBN 0-86350-031-5).

The first pic to note is Plate 87b - which shows a Gordon Highlander of 1812 - with white sporran with 5 black tassels.

The next plate 86a - shows a Gordons Colour Sergeant of 1838 wearing a slightly more complex sporran - but same colour and number of tassels (and also a small badge in the centre.

I Know I'm late - but I like to keep promises. My scanner now works - but my printer is still up the spout!!!! Nice thing is though - I have a new lap-top - just need to find out how it all works now. By the way - we ALWAYS called rifles bundooks - I always thought it was a bit odd - but that was what we called 'em - and I wasn't gonna argue! johnnybach

 

[Hazebrouck]

Thanks for these Johnny.

My figure is pretty close to the one shown in 87B. close enough!

Scott