The dreaded Zinc Pest or "Rot" (2 Viewers)

[Captain Smart]

Just wondered if anyone has experienced or ever known #Zinc Pest or Rot amongst their Toy Soldiers. Zinc pest is a diecast collectors nightmare especially collectors of model cars, aircraft and even model trains.{eek3} But is their many occurences with Toy Soldiers. I am a little of a Toy Soldier Collector newbie, so please So are the generally Ok due to their different metal make/up:redface: Zinc Pest ~ destructive, intercrystalline corrosion process of zinc alloys of poor purity..

 

[Al Fisher]

Yes, I've had several of my 1940-era models affected. I wonder if zinc rot is similar to lead rot? If so, I can recommend a couple of things . . . sadly not cures, but rather a means of stopping more damage.

First, never store your figures in oak cabinets . . . some extend this to hardwood cabinets. Make sure there is ventilation so that plenty of air circulates.

Second, give your figures a wash in a mixture of vinegar and water. Scrub lightly with an old toothbrush, rinse in clean water, and dry. A hairdryer will help speed drying. I've never tried it, but perhaps an overcoat with either flat or glossy aerosol spray (depending on the original finish) would help seal the surface from further oxidation.

Bosun Al

 

[NielsVV]

Does this 'disease' also happens to the newer models manufactured after let say the year 2000?

Never seen a thread about it here. It would be an nightmare to discover it to.

 

[theBaron]

I'm not sure zinc is used in any alloys that figure makers use to cast. For one thing, I think zinc may melt at higher temperatures than the alloys of tin, antimony, bismuth and lead in various proportions used to cast toy soldiers and model figures. In fact, some of the molds I have for casting are made of a zinc alloy. If they were to melt at the melting point of the tin-lead alloys I use, they'd be useless.

To the question of whether zinc rot is similar to lead rot, it probably is, in that it sounds like another case of oxidation of the metal, under the right conditions.

As far as oak is concerned in all of this, it's thought that the tannic acid in the oak triggers the oxidation, but that is still not proven. Also, for that to happen, the oak would have to be unsealed or unvarnished, to allow changes in humidity and air pressure to leach the tannic acid into the air, a process that is similar to ageing wine and spirits in oak barrels. Oak doesn't give off rays. And some collectors have figures stored in oak cabinets, and have never had any issues, while others have collections stored in other types of cabinets, in which some figures begin to oxidize but no others do. As a starting point, the alloy used to cast the figure is key.

Prost!
Brad

 

[ivanmoe]

I've seen models come out of the box with rot on them, so suggestions that the end-purchaser has somehow contributed to the malady is darned unlikely. At very worst, an owner might accelarate the process by a matter of months. I'm not saying that owners shouldn't handle diecast with care as to placement and storage. Rather, "the pest" is caused by impurities in supplier-lots of the zinc alloy that's used in the manufacture of diecast. In other words, a model is born with rot. It doesn't catch it in our closets or curios. Because of this, the disease doesn't exactly appear in a random fashion. Significant portions of a particular model's production may be impacted, making the manufactures in question essentially worthless. In posting these comments, I've got a specific model/manufacturer in mind. The replicas still appear on EBay, BTW. I can't imagine anyone keeping the model IF they actually take it out of the box for inspection. This is definitely an instance when "brand new and unopened" shouldn't be considered as a plus when assigning value to an item.

-Moe

 

[jazzeum]

I don't believe post 2000 figures have this issue, based on expert advise given to me.

 

[Mirof]

It's allas a well known disease attacking everything where there is Pb, the radical cure is " The trashcan "
It's a pulverulent disease, one of the main cause ( for figurines ) is dust.. , dust accumulate humidity .
Cure : eventualy, scrap the paint, scrap the spot of taint with a scalpel knife, use steel wool, protect with a varnish, repaint .
Protect your figures against dust, use humidity drainer in your cabinet .

My favorite cure is " The trashcan ", I used it twice in 40 years, not on my own painted pieces, but on pieces, second hand, bought on ebay .

Best

A today example ( from a forum friend in France on a Feigly piece ):

 

[theBaron]

I think we've drifted into a discussion of lead rot, but let's remember that the OP is asking about zinc rot, and I do not think there is any zinc in any alloy used by any toy soldier manufacturer, and therefore, it shouldn't be an issue. I may be wrong, but then I'd like to know of an example of a figure manufacturer who uses a casting alloy containing zinc.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Mirof]

I think we've drifted into a discussion of lead rot, but let's remember that the OP is asking about zinc rot, and I do not think there is any zinc in any alloy used by any toy soldier manufacturer, and therefore, it shouldn't be an issue. I may be wrong, but then I'd like to know of an example of a figure manufacturer who uses a casting alloy containing zinc.

Prost!
Brad

Ofen in the past die-casting was in use for figurines too, the material known as Mazak or Zamak is a zinc alloy 95% zinc, copper, aluminium, magnesium

Zinc Aluminium Magnesium Kupfer ( copper )

More about Zinc Pest here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak

Best

 

[theBaron]

Ofen in the past die-casting was in use for figurines too, the material known as Mazak or Zamak is a zinc alloy 95% zinc, copper, aluminium, magnesium

Zinc Aluminium Magnesium Kupfer ( copper )

More about Zinc Pest here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak

Best

But how many toy soldier makers used that alloy? I don't know of any, except perhaps Strombecker, who did use an alloy that included magnesium, though I don't know that it included zinc. My point remains the same-I do not expect this to be an issue that will impact toy soldier collectors.

Prost!
Brad

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi All,

Brad makes a good point on who used zinc in their mix for Toy Soldiers. I can only think of a current maker of castings from somewhere in the East, Russia or Ukraine, that is doing some figure kits (mainly Polish Winged Hussars and other 16th and 17th Century figures) that are very brittle with no bend or play in them what so ever. The weight and brittle nature of the metal make me think it has zinc in it. There is no science to back up my thoughts here just an observation on how similar the cross section of the figure was to some diecast toys my brothers and I destroyed in the 70s as kids...

We had a discussion on the topic of lead rot a long time ago here and I remember posting a how to deal with it that was give to me from an older collector who had experienced it with his old hollow casts. I will see if I can find the discussion and link it to this one.

Dave

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys take a look at these old discussions.

Dave

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/fo...ials-used-in-manufacturing&highlight=Lead+rot

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?4394-Lead-disease&highlight=Lead+rot

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/fo...-Humidity-amp-lead-figures&highlight=Lead+rot

 

[Al Fisher]

I've also had problems with Crescent 18 pndrs and . . . unfortunately . . . Greenwood & Ball.

Bosun Al

 

[johnnybach]

Hi All,

Brad makes a good point on who used zinc in their mix for Toy Soldiers. I can only think of a current maker of castings from somewhere in the East, Russia or Ukraine, that is doing some figure kits (mainly Polish Winged Hussars and other 16th and 17th Century figures) that are very brittle with no bend or play in them what so ever. The weight and brittle nature of the metal make me think it has zinc in it. There is no science to back up my thoughts here just an observation on how similar the cross section of the figure was to some diecast toys my brothers and I destroyed in the 70s as kids...

We had a discussion on the topic of lead rot a long time ago here and I remember posting a how to deal with it that was give to me from an older collector who had experienced it with his old hollow casts. I will see if I can find the discussion and link it to this one.

Dave

As I understand it - MAZAC ( in the UK - or Zamac in the US), was used from around mid-1930's - principally by Mecanno and Dinky Toys, to produce a range of die-cast vehicles originally. The mixture of metal used consists of around 96% Zinc, with smaller amounts of Magnesium, Alluminium and Copper. The resulting alloy is often found decaying in older pre-war models due to inter-crystalline corrosion - commonly referred to as metal fatigue. This condition sees the product expand and contract - distort, and eventually crack - then break into small pieces, because of its structure.

I have a couple of Britains' Cowboys made from Mazac in my collection that I believe were originally made for the Australian market - around the sixties - when lead was banned due to health concerns over children's toys. One is a direct copy of a lead version by the same manufacturer.

I have found it difficult to repair broken specimens made in this material - as the metal is much harder than many other types of alloys used - and resists drilling due to the crystalline nature of the interior metal. jb

 

[theBaron]

As I understand it - MAZAC ( in the UK - or Zamac in the US), was used from around mid-1930's - principally by Mecanno and Dinky Toys, to produce a range of die-cast vehicles originally. The mixture of metal used consists of around 96% Zinc, with smaller amounts of Magnesium, Alluminium and Copper. The resulting alloy is often found decaying in older pre-war models due to inter-crystalline corrosion - commonly referred to as metal fatigue. This condition sees the product expand and contract - distort, and eventually crack - then break into small pieces, because of its structure.

I have a couple of Britains' Cowboys made from Mazac in my collection that I believe were originally made for the Australian market - around the sixties - when lead was banned due to health concerns over children's toys. One is a direct copy of a lead version by the same manufacturer.

I have found it difficult to repair broken specimens made in this material - as the metal is much harder than many other types of alloys used - and resists drilling due to the crystalline nature of the interior metal. jb

You prove my point, John. There are few toy soldier makers who ever used an alloy containing zinc, and therefore, to the original poster's comment, zinc rot is not likely to be an issue with toy soldier collectors.

I have similar experience to yours, with the Strombecker figures, that they are relatively hard and resistant to sanding and filing when cleaning them up or repairing them. Basically the only thing I've found that will work is a steel rasp from my woodworking bench.

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

You prove my point, John. There are few toy soldier makers who ever used an alloy containing zinc, and therefore, to the original poster's comment, zinc rot is not likely to be an issue with toy soldier collectors.

I have similar experience to yours, with the Strombecker figures, that they are relatively hard and resistant to sanding and filing when cleaning them up or repairing them. Basically the only thing I've found that will work is a steel rasp from my woodworking bench.

Prost!
Brad

Hi Brad. Yes, I think it was only as a result of concern and then legisilation around lead content in toys, that experiments with other metals actually took place at all with a few manufacturers. It also heralded in Plastic TS - which were never really as nice or popular as the older metal figures. As you say, Zinc is not the friendliest metal to work with - and especially so if and when it snaps - or bits fall off.

I have one such Strombeker figure myself which I fixed up - though not to its previous shape ( thanks to YOU for identifying it for me). He had lost his sword - and it was the very devil to drill into the remaining arm to pin on a replacement. Having said that - the actual castings in this material can be very crisp - and full of detail ( see my repaired version below).

Thankfully, the manufacturers eventually arrived at suitable mixtures, which allowed metal figures to return - albeit at many times the price that they previously were - from some manufacturers today. jb