The Hessians..which regiment it's portrayed by K&C? (1 Viewer)

cantinetozzo

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Hi..i'm reading Fusiliers by Mark Urban (really a great reading!) and besides the fact it describes the war of American Indipendence following the actions of the 23th Welch Fusiliers , i was wondering which regiment of Hessians is portrayed by K&C..i own a book from Don Troiani where is portrayed a regiment similar in appearence to the K&C soldiers , is a plate from the battle of Saratoga..but i'd like to know exactly what regiment it is.Maybe you can help me!
 
I'll check my references tonight when I get home. They might represent Regiment "Kronprinz", which had red facings by the time of the War for Independence.

I have a couple of books that between them, cover all of the regiments of all of the Hessian states-Hessen-Kassel, Hessen-Darmstad and Hessen-Nassau. Mollo's "Uniforms of the American Revolution", for one, and one from Germany, "Nix wie weg! Die Hessen Komme! by Karl Trenkle. That one outlines each regiment, infantry, cavalry and artillery, with history and uniforms, from the 1600s until 1918.

Prost!
Brad
 
Thanks TheBaron..the flag may help with your reference too..i'll wait your response!
 
Well, having looked at the references, it's still not entirely clear.

Of the German regiments that embarked for North America in British service, the following had blue coats, with red lapels and cuffs, as the K&C figures do:

from Hessen-Kassel, regiments "Prinz Carl", "Erbprinz", "Von Mirbach", "Lossberg";

from Hessen-Hanau, regiment "Erbprinz";

from Brunswick, "Von Specht"

The Brunswick troops can be ruled out, not because they aren't Hessians, in the literal sense, but because of the grenadiers' cap plates, and because the color carried by the one officer figure is definitely from a Kasseler regiment, Regiment "Trümbach". But the K&C Hessians can't be from Regiment Trümbach, because that regiment did not wear lapels.

Of the remaining regiments who wore red lapels, only Lossberg wore plain lapels, without lace (though Trenkle shows them at the time of the Seven Years War, with a plain lace border). The other regiments all had either lace borders, or lace-trimmed buttonholes, or both.

Lossberg was a fusilier regiment, and it was part of von Rall's command at Trenton. If this is the correct regiment, then K&C's grenadiers represent the grenadier companies of the regiment.

However, Lossberg's colors had a scarlet field, not blue, with green darts in corners. Their lapels were also more of a scarlet color (in Mollo's book, it almost looks orange, a trick of the printing process), rather than the darker, poppy red (auf gut deitsch, ponceaurot) of the other regiments.

I've said it before-these are minor details that most probably wouldn't mind, and that wouldn't keep them from buying the figures. But I can't get past the moustaches the officers are wearing-gentlemen didn't wear facial hair at this time, with the exception of some hussar officers. Also, the officer carrying the flag is wearing riding boots, so he must have gotten knocked off his horse. Only officers whose duties permitted them to ride would have worn boots; otherwise, they wore gaiters.

But they fill a void in the collecting world right now. The only other option for anyone who wants Britain's German allies is Imrire-Risley or Preiser kits.

Hope that helps, and if anyone else has more research, please join in!

Prost!
Brad
 
Hi I read the Fusiliers book myself a few months back and couldn't put it down, it was a really informative interesting read.

I'm sure I read that the K&C Hessian figures are a Grenadier regiment. Will check a book I've got at home as I think there is a uniform in it that more or less matches the K&C figures. Will come back to you.
 
Really informative TheBaron..thanks..i think too the real problem is the lapels, that is a mistery.In my opinion the guys at K&C wished to represent one of the regiments captured at Trenton, but they have mistaken the colors, but that is only my guess. I've found this site :http://www.vondonop.org/hessianfaq.html
but the uniforms - flags do not correspond.
I think too they are really good and only this minor fault of uniform inaccuracy spoils them.By the way i think to buy others, i 've bought only the officer carrying the spontoon.
 
Could be a grenadier regiment, though I have doubts. There were few regiments in any army at the time, composed entirely of grenadiers, though they did exist. Soldiers in Frederick the Great's own Garde were all designated grenadiers, even those who wore the tricorn, though the regiment was known simply as "Regiment Garde".

Hessen-Hanau's Regiment Erbprinz may have been designated a grenadier regiment, because it was the Leib- or "bodyguard" regiment, of the heir to the Kassel duchy. But I think it more likely that K&C's represent more a grenadier company.

However, as we've all noted, the uniform details are just generic enough, that they could pass for one of several regiments.

More digging required....


Maybe Andy or Tony might see the thread and have more info to update us.
 
Lossberg was a fusilier regiment, and it was part of von Rall's command at Trenton. If this is the correct regiment, then K&C's grenadiers represent the grenadier companies of the regiment.

In the 'Encyclopedia of the Uniforms of the American War of Independence' this is the regiment that the K&C figures match the most.

But as theBaron says we may need an official viewpoint on this!
 
In the 'Encyclopedia of the Uniforms of the American War of Independence' this is the regiment that the K&C figures match the most.

But as theBaron says we may need an official viewpoint on this!

Well, not so much an official viewpoint, but rather, I'm curious to know which unit K&C took for the model.

I'm not a K&C collector, so I'm not as familiar with their ad materials as others in the forum, but I don't recall having seen, in the ads in Toy Soldier & Model Figure, for example, that the designation was any more than just "Hessians". So, I'm curious to know from the source, if there was a specific regiment used as the model.

Also, as we've noted, the uniform is a close match for Lossberg (except for the color of the lapels), but then the colors of the Ordinärfahne included with the series are not quite accurate.

If this series is supposed to be Lossberg, then maybe there will be members of the fusilier companies added in the future, in the distinctive fusilier cap.

It's still a very good series, very striking, and one that really hasn't been done like this before.

Prost!
Brad
 

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