Tiger I Camouflage Colors (1 Viewer)

[katana]

The three Tiger Is left to right are: Minichamps 1/35 scale, The Collectors Showcase Arnhem Tiger 1/30 scale & VsTank 1/24 scale.
The figures with the Panzers left to right are: CanDo 50 mm, W. Britains 60 mm & Del Prado 70 mm.

The Dunkelgleb on each Tiger is different yet accurate. The color officially changed three times during the war. The color when applied in the field would be different depending on what thinner was used for the paint paste i.e. Gasoline, Oil etc. Sun and weather would fade the color over time. The Rotbraun RAL 8012 and Olivgrun RAL 6003 on both the TCS and VsTank Tigers are also accurate. Late in the war Red Primer replaced Rotbraun as supplies ran out. The Primer color was more red than the Rotbraun.

The VsTank Tiger I is an accurate scale model of the Tiger Is deployed in Normandy by the Schwer SS Pz. Abt. 102 of the II SS Panzer Korps Summer 1944. A fine color drawing of a similar Tiger I is in Jean Restayn's excellent book; Tanks of World War Two. Publisher; Histoire & Collections 1996.

 

[Baymax]

The 134 is Will Fey's Normandy ride from Abt 102 SS. They were unique in the camo pattern they applied to their armour. It is probably correct with possibly and issue over the rotbraun. the smaller Tiger I is a good dunkelgelb.

The TCS Tigers were too orangy in tone to be correct regardless of the changes which were subtle and not as dramatic in reality as you suggest when stating they changed three times. That denotes or kind of denotes a major change in colour which it was not

 

[katana]

The Dunkelgelb Nach Muster RAL 7028 was the earliest Dunkelgelb and similar to the Armor Yellow on the Porsche King Tiger at the Bovington Tank Museum in the photo and the TCS model.

Interesting note about this King Tiger sans Zimmerit. I understand it was built after the war to a commission from the museum.
What is your opinion of the accuracy of the colors?

 

[kilted vampire]

My opinion? The first road trip, the first rain, the first battle none of it matters. If it is close and you can tell what it is I. It should be good enough:salute::

 

[Baymax]

I would avoid museum painting as anything accurate as I would colour plates from authors. I have visited and spoken with staff many times at Bovington and had many discussions with them regarding the RAL system. I was told by the people that work there and research etc these were ''reasonable representations of what was used in WWII but, that was all'' It certainly is not the worst I have seen. I think a number of misrepresentations have occurred because manufacturers and others have followed museums etc and that is how or part of why colours are often easy to confuse

I guess you make your own conclusions as you have and will but, I disagree that Dunkelgelb at any stage had an orange to amber hue

 

[katana]

You may want to check your monitors color calibration; as I see no hint of orange or amber color in the TCS Tiger I camoufalge. I have two monitors; one with flourescent back light and one with LED backlight, neither monitor shows an orange hew. I see more yellow in the TCS than in the Minichamps Tiger I; which is why I posted the photo of the Bovington King Tiger as an example of a more yellow Dunkelgleb. Color is very subjective and eyesight can affect color perception.

You asserted the Rotbrun may be in error on the VsTank Tiger I; but you did not elaborate. The Rotbrun on the VsTank is text book RAL 8012. The VsTank colors on their Tiger I and King Tiger are some of the most accurate Panzer colors I have seen on a commercial model.

 

[Hunter Rose]

You asserted the Rotbrun may be in error on the VsTank Tiger I; but you did not elaborate. The Rotbrun on the VsTank is text book RAL 8012.

Not sure how RAL 8012 is textbook anything in regards to WW2. Rotbraun in WW2 was RAL8017.

As for the dunkelgelb on the TCS Tiger, that was a very poor shade. Very yellow/orange-ish. Not very realistic looking at all. The paint job on the VS tank is not too bad, but
that tank is gigantic. Even the Del Prado tank commander you have with it (which is a huge figure even larger than K&C figures) is much too small for it.

 

[katana]

Not sure how RAL 8012 is textbook anything in regards to WW2. Rotbraun in WW2 was RAL8017.

As for the dunkelgelb on the TCS Tiger, that was a very poor shade. Very yellow/orange-ish. Not very realistic looking at all. The paint job on the VS tank is not too bad, but
that tank is gigantic. Even the Del Prado tank commander you have with it (which is a huge figure even larger than K&C figures) is much too small for it.

RAL 8012 is Rotbrun. RAL 8017 is Schokoladbrun and RAL 7028 is Dunkelgelb Nach Muster per the RAL color chart. The TCS Tiger Dunkelgelb is very close to the color on the Bovington Tank Museum King Tiger. I trust the personnel of the museum to have done adequate research to assure the accuracy of the colors on a major Panzer exhibit. The first photo shows what the Bovington Tank Museum considers the correct colors.

The Del Prado figure is 70 mm tall over the base. The second photo shows the Del Prado figure in relation to a TCS and K&C figure and as is made clear by the reference scale all three figures are within a few millimeters of each other in height. A 70 mm figure at 1/24 scale would be 5'6" or 1680 mm tall. A not uncommon height among Panzerwaffe in 1944. The figure in the turret hatch is a K&C figure and is also size compatible IMO.

The last photo shows a VsTank King Tiger; which is the same 1/24 scale as the Tiger I. The figure in the turret cupola is by TCS and the standing figure is by K&C. A comparison with WWII photos indicates these are size compatible and within the normal range of human height.

I would be interested in your comments on the colors on the King Tiger.

 

[Hunter Rose]

Katana,

Again you're posting statements of fact yet know not about that which you speak. In WW2 there was no such thing as RAL 8012 Rotbraun and RAL 8017 Schokoladenbraun. The RAL system changed after the war and these were post war creations.

During the war there was just one color, RAL 8017 Rotbraun.

As for the VS tank, I probably should not have mentioned it because that is just a black hole we will never see eye to eye on. The figures look too small next to the 1/24 tank.

As for the Bovington Tiger, your comment about trusting museum personnel to get the colors right made me laught. You should google Bovington Panzers for some pictures of some absurdly bad paint schemes. If you're going to use a museum paint scheme, you should at least look at the Deutches Panzer museum Munster. Their paint schemes are much better.

 

[katana]

Katana,

Again you're posting statements of fact yet know not about that which you speak. In WW2 there was no such thing as RAL 8012 Rotbraun and RAL 8017 Schokoladenbraun. The RAL system changed after the war and these were post war creations.

During the war there was just one color, RAL 8017 Rotbraun.

As for the VS tank, I probably should not have mentioned it because that is just a black hole we will never see eye to eye on. The figures look too small next to the 1/24 tank.

As for the Bovington Tiger, your comment about trusting museum personnel to get the colors right made me laught. You should google Bovington Panzers for some pictures of some absurdly bad paint schemes. If you're going to use a museum paint scheme, you should at least look at the Deutches Panzer museum Munster. Their paint schemes are much better.

Per Hunter Rose's suggestion I have posted photos from the Munster Museum Tiger I & KT-photos 1 & 2. The Bovington Museum KT photo-3 and the Patton Museum KT photo-4. I see little difference between the color choices of two of the three museums. The shades of Olivgrun show the greatest variation. The Munster KT has the lightest Olivgrun and the Patton KT the darkest. The Bovington Henschel turret KT is in between and looks to be the most correct Olivgrun shade IMO. The Rotbruns seem almost identical between the three KT museum examples. The Dunkelgelb appears very similar between the Bovington and Munster KT examples. The Patton Museum KT example is the lightest shade and almost a sand color.

Each individuals eye and computer monitor will differ between the representations of the three colors and color is very subjective. I find both the Bovington and Munster KT examples to be relativly accurate representations. The Patton Museum KT example is off a bit as the Dunkelgelb is too light. The Germans also used the Red Primer paint in place of Rotbrun late in the war when supplies had been depleted.

Weather or not RAL numbers were the same in WW II as they are today is not relevant to the evaluation of Museum restorations. The colors in all three Museum KT examples correspond closely with the modern RAL colors; RAL 8012 Rotbraun, RAL 6003 Olivgrun and RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb. The three RAL colors cover a range of shades within each numeric designation. A Google search of the RAL number will show an image of a color chart showing the range of shades.

The size of the figures displayed with the Tiger I are within the range of normal human male heights for the period. The Del Prado figure is 70 mm tall; which corresponds to a height of 5'6". A typical height for Panzerwaffe during WW II. Many WW II photos show a similar size relationship between crew and vehicles and I have posted several.