Tiger II in the Ardennes campaign... (1 Viewer)

[binder001]

Looking at some of the comments and photos on this board I havea question. Why do so many "toy soldier" collectors associate the King Tiger with the Battle of the Bulge? The actual use of the Tiger I and King Tiger in the Ardennes was pretty minimal and not particualrly successful. The big tanks really had no tactical impact upon the course of the campaign. I know that the Germans shot some famous publicity photos of the King Tigers that seem to appear in many references to the Ardennes offensive, but the battle was really fought by Panthers, Pz IVs, Stumgeschutze, and various Jagdpanzers. It seems mandatory that each collector of German vehicles must have an "Ardennes" King Tiger. Why so?

Just idle curiousity at work.

Gary B.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Looking at some of the comments and photos on this board I havea question. Why do so many "toy soldier" collectors associate the King Tiger with the Battle of the Bulge? The actual use of the Tiger I and King Tiger in the Ardennes was pretty minimal and not particualrly successful. The big tanks really had no tactical impact upon the course of the campaign. I know that the Germans shot some famous publicity photos of the King Tigers that seem to appear in many references to the Ardennes offensive, but the battle was really fought by Panthers, Pz IVs, Stumgeschutze, and various Jagdpanzers. It seems mandatory that each collector of German vehicles must have an "Ardennes" King Tiger. Why so?

Just idle curiousity at work.

Gary B.

Same reason why the B-17 is much more famous than the B-24 which was a more numerous and argually better bomber. And for our British friends the iconic Spitfire when the more numerous Hurricanes shot down more aircraft. The Me109 when the FW190 was a much better fighter.

Publicity is why.

Terry

 

[lancer]

IMHO the film clips, (publicity, as Terry said), are a big part of this. Tiger phobia has something to do with it. A German tank was a King Tiger regardless of what it actually was. I think the massacre at Malmedy and the well known thrust by Peiper's Battlegroup, which had KT's attached, has a lot to do with it too. The Peiper action has had so much written about it and has had so many pictures and filmclips of those KT's taken, even though the Panther was so important to Peiper's action, the KT is just associated with Peiper, and thus, the Bulge as well. -- Al

 

[Currahee Chris]

Hey Gary

your position is interesting to me as I, like the rest of us, have seen the b&w footage of the white camo'd KT's in massive formations. I assumed that they were involved heavily in the conflict. Yet, oddly enough and as you point out, can't recall hearing too much about then in the Bulge actually. Except, as you say, when they got stuck.

Would you say they were more active in Normandy then?

I don't collect the Bulge ranges but try to stay somewhat true with the fall breakout. I feel I am doing ok with putting the TII's in that context.

Perhaps they were more active in the Fall of Berlin- when the bigger cats seemed to come out and play.

I like them because they sort of foreshadowed a lot of technological breakthroughs you see with modern armor.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Hey Gary

your position is interesting to me as I, like the rest of us, have seen the b&w footage of the white camo'd KT's in massive formations. I assumed that they were involved heavily in the conflict. Yet, oddly enough and as you point out, can't recall hearing too much about then in the Bulge actually. Except, as you say, when they got stuck.

Would you say they were more active in Normandy then?

I don't collect the Bulge ranges but try to stay somewhat true with the fall breakout. I feel I am doing ok with putting the TII's in that context.

Perhaps they were more active in the Fall of Berlin- when the bigger cats seemed to come out and play.

I like them because they sort of foreshadowed a lot of technological breakthroughs you see with modern armor.

Only 500 Tiger II were built and the vast majority fought on the Eastern Front including the fall of Berlin. Only a few, mostly Heer heavy tank batallions in the west had them. There were some Tiger II at Arnhem. Also some at Normandy which were wiped out by the time they got to the Falaise Gap. Many of these were Prsche variants. And the final group of them were at the Bulge - mostly Henschel variants. As an off the top estimate, probably well less than 100 of the 500 Tiger II's fought in the west

I bet Frank has a detailed list of Tiger II in units that were in the west.

Terry

 

[PanzerAce1944]

From what I have seen and or read the Germans threw in around 50 to 100 king tigers into the Bulge offensive, losing most all of them. :redface2:

 

[fmethorst]

I don't have time for too much detail on Tiger IIs in the west as a whole but here is a little info on Ardennes Tiger IIs

The s.SS.Pz.Abt.501 (45 Tiger IIs) was subordinated to 1.SS-Panzer-Division "LSSAH" to fill in for Abteilung II due to a shortage of tanks. Abteilung I was made up of the unit's Panthers and Panzer IVs.

Here are the reported strength levels of 501 at various stages of the battle:

Dec.16 - 45
Dec.18 - 43
Dec.19 - 42
Dec.21 - 38
Dec.24 - 35
Dec.25 - 32
Dec.30 - 32

The other Tiger II unit involved in the Ardennes was s.H.Pz.Abt.506.

 

[Currahee Chris]

.... was s.H.Pz.Abt.506.

Just something magical about that number {sm3}

Thanks for the info guys- great thread idea Gary- I had wondered the same sort of things in the past.. too embarrassed to post I guess... :redface2: