What's the deal with OAK????? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Lo1863
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Partner
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Oak apparently emits a substance that causes "lead rot" , the symptoms are a fine powder on the figures or around their base . New toy soldiers are not made of lead so not an issue .
you can find more detailed info if you Google "lead rot toy soldiers "
Don't worry be Happy
Kirk
you can find more detailed info if you Google "lead rot toy soldiers "
Don't worry be Happy
Kirk
REVWARBUFF
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There was a discussion on this forum about this very topic a few years ago. From what I recall, oak wood emits tannic acid which leads to lead rot. However, this effects only those "older" toy soldiers that were made purely of lead. I think the newer toy soldiers, those made post 1980(?), were fine as they are made of different material (i.e.--white metal).
I'm sure someone else who is more knowledgeable on this can provide more info, but for now that is all I remember.
Mark
I'm sure someone else who is more knowledgeable on this can provide more info, but for now that is all I remember.
Mark
theBaron
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I recommend looking up the previous threads for more details.
Oak does not cause lead rot as an absolute; just putting a lead figure in an oak cabinet is not going to result in a figure crumbling before your eyes. Lead rot is an oxide of lead, just as rust is an oxide of iron. There are several factors involved, including the composition of the alloy used to make the figure and the humidity of the environment. No one has ever done an empirical test, for one thing, because it would take years to carry it out. So we have anecdotes ("Your Honor, I have hearsay and rumor--those are kinds of evidence"--Lionel Hutz). There are collectors who have reported seeing figures corrode in a very short time, some in oak cabinets, others in cabinets made from other kinds of wood. Some collectors have reported whole groups of figures corroding, others have noted that one figure might show signs, while one next to it doesn't.
So, is it time to panic? No. Should you use oak? I have an oak barrister and have had figures in it for about 20 years. I haven't seen any of them start to rot yet, even the old ones. But they're not airtight, and I worry more about humidity.
Another thing you can do, if you're worried about lead rot, is to make sure the figure is completely coated by paint or varnish, because the metal has to be exposed to the air, to oxidize.
Prost!
Brad
Oak does not cause lead rot as an absolute; just putting a lead figure in an oak cabinet is not going to result in a figure crumbling before your eyes. Lead rot is an oxide of lead, just as rust is an oxide of iron. There are several factors involved, including the composition of the alloy used to make the figure and the humidity of the environment. No one has ever done an empirical test, for one thing, because it would take years to carry it out. So we have anecdotes ("Your Honor, I have hearsay and rumor--those are kinds of evidence"--Lionel Hutz). There are collectors who have reported seeing figures corrode in a very short time, some in oak cabinets, others in cabinets made from other kinds of wood. Some collectors have reported whole groups of figures corroding, others have noted that one figure might show signs, while one next to it doesn't.
So, is it time to panic? No. Should you use oak? I have an oak barrister and have had figures in it for about 20 years. I haven't seen any of them start to rot yet, even the old ones. But they're not airtight, and I worry more about humidity.
Another thing you can do, if you're worried about lead rot, is to make sure the figure is completely coated by paint or varnish, because the metal has to be exposed to the air, to oxidize.
Prost!
Brad
Arnhemjim
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Members of the Forum,
The following discussion is an excerpt of the article I have posted on my blog page entitled 'W. Britains Toy Soldiers'. I have personally experienced 'lead rot' (not known to be caused by oak cabinetry, but apparently a sealed plastic display case, since ventilated with air holes) to 2 Greenwood & Ball figures. Was able to save one by a careful brushing and a coat of matte clear lacquer. Concur with the *****sment that the newer alloys are not affected with 'lead rot'. It has been established that tannic acid vapors, albeit in relatively small ppms, can over a long period of time attack the older lead alloys. This is particularly true in a coastal or other high humidity environment.
"One important aspect of collecting is the care and maintenance of your collection, particularly as it grows and represents a significant investment in time and resources. One key subject in the preservation of toy soldiers is the prevention of what is popularly defined as “lead rot”, but in fact is a form of electrolysis. First indication of this condition is the appearance of a white powder-like substance (lead carbonate) on the figure, analogous to corrosion on battery terminals, but on a very fine scale. Unfortunately lead rot seems to be “contagious”, and once started can rapidly spread, so immediate corrective action is advised. The best thing to do is to remove the affected figure from others, and carefully brush the total surface with a fine sable brush. Then, depending on whether the painted surface is a gloss or matte finish, use a corresponding high-grade quick dry hobby paint topcoat over the entire surface. This can be carefully disbursed from a spray can, or applied with a fine sable brush. Don’t forget the underside of the base. On most toy soldiers, and on all Britains this surface is bare lead/tin alloy. In advanced states a more complicated treatment is the use of ion-exchange resin, which is commercially available. After brushing off the powder from the surface, seal the unaffected areas with soluble nylon or a 10 percent PVA/IMS solution. The figure is then laid between layers of resin and submerged in distilled water. As the water is then boiled it converts the carbonate back to metal. The entire figure is coated with the previously described topcoat. There are two environments, which are known to cause this occurrence. The first is a high ambient humidity, most likely to occur near a large body of water, i.e. ocean, lake, etc. The other potential cause is storage in oak display cabinets. Oak secretes tannic acid which will attack the lead. Obviously the combination of the two conditions can exacerbate the occurrence. A trade-off occurs between providing adequate ventilation for your collection, and the accumulation of dust. I would personally opt towards good ventilation, and rationalize the dust as the “sands of time” scaled down. A dehumidifier can well prove to be a sound investment."
If interested, you can find more tips on care and maintenance of toy soldiers, specifically vintage (1893 - 1966) sets at: http://arnhemjim.blogspot.com/p/britains-minatures.html.
Arnhem Jim
Bone dry Arizona Territory
The following discussion is an excerpt of the article I have posted on my blog page entitled 'W. Britains Toy Soldiers'. I have personally experienced 'lead rot' (not known to be caused by oak cabinetry, but apparently a sealed plastic display case, since ventilated with air holes) to 2 Greenwood & Ball figures. Was able to save one by a careful brushing and a coat of matte clear lacquer. Concur with the *****sment that the newer alloys are not affected with 'lead rot'. It has been established that tannic acid vapors, albeit in relatively small ppms, can over a long period of time attack the older lead alloys. This is particularly true in a coastal or other high humidity environment.
"One important aspect of collecting is the care and maintenance of your collection, particularly as it grows and represents a significant investment in time and resources. One key subject in the preservation of toy soldiers is the prevention of what is popularly defined as “lead rot”, but in fact is a form of electrolysis. First indication of this condition is the appearance of a white powder-like substance (lead carbonate) on the figure, analogous to corrosion on battery terminals, but on a very fine scale. Unfortunately lead rot seems to be “contagious”, and once started can rapidly spread, so immediate corrective action is advised. The best thing to do is to remove the affected figure from others, and carefully brush the total surface with a fine sable brush. Then, depending on whether the painted surface is a gloss or matte finish, use a corresponding high-grade quick dry hobby paint topcoat over the entire surface. This can be carefully disbursed from a spray can, or applied with a fine sable brush. Don’t forget the underside of the base. On most toy soldiers, and on all Britains this surface is bare lead/tin alloy. In advanced states a more complicated treatment is the use of ion-exchange resin, which is commercially available. After brushing off the powder from the surface, seal the unaffected areas with soluble nylon or a 10 percent PVA/IMS solution. The figure is then laid between layers of resin and submerged in distilled water. As the water is then boiled it converts the carbonate back to metal. The entire figure is coated with the previously described topcoat. There are two environments, which are known to cause this occurrence. The first is a high ambient humidity, most likely to occur near a large body of water, i.e. ocean, lake, etc. The other potential cause is storage in oak display cabinets. Oak secretes tannic acid which will attack the lead. Obviously the combination of the two conditions can exacerbate the occurrence. A trade-off occurs between providing adequate ventilation for your collection, and the accumulation of dust. I would personally opt towards good ventilation, and rationalize the dust as the “sands of time” scaled down. A dehumidifier can well prove to be a sound investment."
If interested, you can find more tips on care and maintenance of toy soldiers, specifically vintage (1893 - 1966) sets at: http://arnhemjim.blogspot.com/p/britains-minatures.html.
Arnhem Jim
Bone dry Arizona Territory
Last edited:
Hi Cameron,
It can happen with new toy soldiers made by smaller vendors. For example, I purchased in 2001 six figures from a manufacturer in South America. All six have rot, white powder. This has not happened to the other soldiers in my collection and my home has central air, so it cannot be blamed on humidity.
I will try Jim's method on my figures.
Good Luck,
Benjamin
Larry Allen
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I just had a look at my "older" Russian Made Naps that have been in an OAK display for 7 or 8 years and no issues. 
There are ventilation holes on the bottom of the cases and I do have the room climate controlled (to a point).
Maybe it depends on the quality of the Oak display cabinet itself? --- Larry
There are ventilation holes on the bottom of the cases and I do have the room climate controlled (to a point).
Maybe it depends on the quality of the Oak display cabinet itself?
--- Larry