Where do standard bearers stand during firing (AWI / Napoleonics era) (1 Viewer)

[Cornwallis]

It is my understanding that when an army is marching towards an enemy on the battlefield the standard bearers would be positioned more or less centrally in each company / regiment and in the front rank. What I would like to know is that when the company stops advancing and forms up to commence firing where do the standard bearers go?

Do they remain standing in the front rank and make tempting targets or would they move completely behind the firing lines. Also where would drummers / fifers stand once firing formation had been taken up?

 

[Spitfrnd]

The manual called for the colour ensigns and sargents to line up in the second rank of a two line battle formation, between the 4th and 5th companies. The drummers were distributed equally behind the second rank and to the middle of each company. The practice often deviated from the manual since the colours were used to give directions and form a rallying point. Moreover when in close combat with the enemy they were often more further back for protection. In a square, the colour party was in the center.

 

[theBaron]

We need to clarify which army we're talking about, too, though it's probably similar from one (European) army to the next, since the colors served pretty much the same tactical function in each. They were a visual alignment point, very important in the era of linear tactics, useful to keep order, whether when locking on to fire, or when setting off to advance.

In the Prussian Gefechtsordnung (order of battle), for a battalion, which was the basic tactical unit on the field, in firing order, the colors of the companies that made up the battalion would be situated in the middle of the line, and the line would dress from the left and right on the center.

When the battalion set itself in motion, the battalion commander would select a Gesichtspunkt or pointe de vue, a point on which he could align the march, then step out ten paces in front of the center of the battalion, accompanied by the color party and several NCOs. Again, the battalion would dress from the left and right on the center.

Of course, on the battlefield, this might not be as neat as in a diagram...

Prost!
Brad

 

[Spitfrnd]

The manual called for the colour ensigns and sargents to line up in the second rank of a two line battle formation, between the 4th and 5th companies. The drummers were distributed equally behind the second rank and to the middle of each company. The practice often deviated from the manual since the colours were used to give directions and form a rallying point. Moreover when in close combat with the enemy they were often more further back for protection. In a square, the colour party was in the center.

Needless to say, I hope, this was the British practice.

 

[Scott]

I found these two modern images for the Napoleonic French that cover column and line as battle formations. I was looking for them to set up my HaT French so I already had them. How it helps. The source...Napoleon and His Enemies is in the illustration corner.

 

[King's Man]

Scott,

Thank you for posting such clear illustrations of the flag's proper position.

King's Man

 

[Scott]

I'm looking for British and US examples. The US in the the War of 1812 might be based on the French models. Winfield Scott's manuals were based on French manuals. Basically you have the color/colors with a guard in the center where the right and left guides can see them when in a battalion front.

http://home.att.net/~Cap1MD/ABFormReg.htm

ABSTRACT OF INFANTRY TACTICS;

Approved 2d of March, 1829.

"Posts of Colors and color-guard.

51. The state and regimental colors shall be borne by two sergeants, the former on the right.

52. The color-guard shall consist of three corporals, to be selected by the colonel from the battalion companies.

53. The colors* and their guard shall be posted on the left of the right centre company, and will constitute a part of that company.

54. The color-bearers* shall be placed in the front rank with a color-sergeant between them. The three corporals shall be placed covering them in the second rank.

55. The color-guard must be distinguished for regularity, perfect appearance under arms, and marching.

56. The color-bearers and the color-sergeant, placed between them, shall be selected by the colonel.

57. It is of the utmost importance in marching in order of battle, (or line,) that the color-sergeant should be thoroughly habituated to preserve the precise length and cadence of step; and, in his own person, to prolong a given direction, without deviation.

58. The corporals of the color-guard, and all sergeants, shall carry their arms as will herein-after be prescribed. (See Nos. 768, &c., and No. 778.)..."

 

[Cornwallis]

Thanks very much for putting all this together it is really useful for me.

So am I right in thinking that I should set up my AWI colour party using these figures in this order:

Front rank Regimental flag Colour Sergeant Union Jack
Second rank Corporal Corporal Corporal
drummer drummer drummer

Which of the attached figures is best suited to be the colour sergeant and the corporals out of the officer with sword and the sergeant with the rifle?

 

[Scott]

Not sure but the private marching is closest to corporal. Segeants usually had a halbard. The color bearers are of course Ensigns. I know you don't want to do any conversions to collector figures. Maybe 3 privates marching with the two ensigns in the front rank with a another private in between. Considering sickness and casualties...I'm IMAGING they plugged in good men for these posts.

The officer could be there as a file closer to the rear rather than commanding the guard that already has two commisioned officers and 4 NCOs......all "chosen" men.