Why are plastic collectors treated as second class? (2 Viewers)

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timpoisverylicky

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I am fully sick and tired of plastic collectors being treated either as as second class or as an embrassing poor relative.
Why is this?
I have my own opinions but would like to hear others first.

The more you kill and burn, the better it will please me"
U.S General Jacob Smith Philippines 1901
 
Some opinions,

1) Plastic soldiers still carry a mild "dime store" cachet. That's where the older ones of us first bought our toy soldiers while passing by the hobby or collectibles store where the hand-painted lead miniatures waited for someone with more money.
2) Plastics are generally produced in the multiple thousands or more, versus the lead miniatures that are produced in smaller quantities. Limited production = "exclusive" or "collectible" to many hobbies.
3) Plastics have generally been marketed to the general public or in "playsets" not as true collectibles.
4) Plastics are mostly sold as unpainted whereas most lead (or now "pewter") figures are handpainted. The value lies more in the paint job applied than the value of the casting.
5) In our society "plastic" still equates with "cheap" to many. Oddly there are many members of this august forum who will pay hundreds of dollars for a lump of pollystone that approximates a tank versus paying for a hand-assembled model kit that is more likely to be more accurate and be one-of-a-kind.

Those are a few of my (highly opinionated) reasons that plastics won't hold the same respect as painted metals. So I don't think anyone actually means to treat anyone else as "second class", but the enthusiasm on this forum is really generated by the painted metals and limited editions. There are groups where plastics are valued and the "collectibles" are seen as extravagant.

Keep up your spirits - there are other plastic guys out here.

Gary B.
 
timpoisverylicky said:
I am fully sick and tired of plastic collectors being treated either as as second class or as an embrassing poor relative.
Why is this?
I have my own opinions but would like to hear others first.

The more you kill and burn, the better it will please me"
U.S General Jacob Smith Philippines 1901
Click to expand...

Can you give some specific examples? I've never seen anyone give someone a hard time, just because he collects plastic figures. Or are you basing that on the smaller percentage of material covering plastic figures, in the forums-not necessarily this one-and magazines devoted to the hobby? That may come from the fact that there aren't as many collectors of plastic figures as there are of metal figures, though the numbers of plastic collectors have been increasing steadily for a long time. There are more and more dealers at shows, who stock plastic figures, and of course, there are more manufacturers producing plastic sets, of higher quality than the old bagged army men from Hong Kong that I played with as a kid.

Prost!
Brad
 
i have no problems with plastic toy soldiers.
I think if i find a nice plastic toysoldiers with good paint i will buy it my self.
I just do not like all grey or green in 3-5 diferent positions and that is it.
But i do no problem with people who collect even those.I play with them as a child because i didnt know that there are metal toysoldiers,now that i know than i rather buy metal.
maybe it is good that you post some photos of your plastic to ysoldiers so we all can see how they look like and i am sure a lot of us will join you in the discusion.
I remmember i wannt to buy some toy soldiers that i was play when i was a child it was some kind of rubber plastic material.I think pants was plastic and upper body (chest arms,...) was rubber and you can remove the weapons and it was wild west series,nice paint and everything.I will buy them at once but i do not know who make them
 
Good topic, and good comments. I personally haven't experienced any negativity or condescending attitudes among collectors (especially at conventions, where there is plenty of plastic to be had), but there does seem to be a bias in certain quarters.

One thing that I find strange is the lack of plastics in some brick-and-mortar soldier stores. There are three shops in Florida that only carry painted metal. I realize that merchants need to stock what sells, but if you have a business that deals exclusively in figures (especially in a region where there aren't many of your kind around), wouldn't you want to have a good, diverse selection? The way I see it, if you don't carry unpainted plastics (as well as unpainted metals, for that matter) you may be unintentionally harming the future of the hobby. After all, somebody has to paint the figures you carry - if you don't stock unpainted stuff, you're not exactly encouraging the next wave of artists. You're also excluding the potential customers that may not be able to afford a $45 dollar metal figure, but could shell out $15 for a box of plastic ones.

Where plastics are concerned, mainstream hobby shops confuse me. Most places stock at least a few 1/72 sets (as well as the 1/35 kits from companies like Dragon and Tamiya), but there always seems to be a lack of 1/32 figures. Even the rare store that carries a good selection of plastics often omits offerings from certain dealers. One impressive shop I was at recently had a full line of 1/32 Italeri and Revell, but no AIP, Hat, Emhar or Accurate. They also stocked A Call to Arms 1/72, but no 1/32.

Most toy stores don't carry figures at all anymore, save for the big buckets of dimestore stuff. Perhaps there will be a change, but it doesn't seem likely anytime soon.

Yes, you can get plastics easily online. But people who aren't familiar with figures won't just seek them out on the internet, and unless web dealers advertise heavily on and off their sites these individuals may not find out about them. It seems to me that the best way to promote figures is for brick-and-mortar shops to carry at least a few sets so that a guy or girl visiting the shop will pass by and take notice.
 
I grew up playing with plastics, and I have always really enjoyed them.
However I no longer collect them just becuase I really enjoy painting metal 25MM and 40MM figures now. But I also think plastic gets a back seat.

I know when I have attended toy soldier shows, or MFCA shows, the painted metal are always showcased. Sometimes at a big show you cannot even find the latest Barzso set for example. I still think some of the best figures today are done in plastic.

Walt
 
I don't necessarily agree that plastics collectors are treated as second class.

Also, you need to define "plastic."

I have many plastic figures, and never considered myself/felt second class. There are also publications - and I assume forums - geared to plastic collectors if you feel that would help.

@ Walt - Barzo is not the best marketer. You have to really make an effort to get stuff from him ( he once returned a $100.00 order to me b/c he was focused on other things!). But, he makes a quality stuff and it's worth the chase.

IMHO there is no need for plastic collectors to feel second class.
 
I grew up with Airfix plastic soldiers and still have them in the loft,plastic TS's will always be welcome in my collections.

Rob
 
wds0855 said:
I grew up playing with plastics, and I have always really enjoyed them.
However I no longer collect them just becuase I really enjoy painting metal 25MM and 40MM figures now. But I also think plastic gets a back seat.

I know when I have attended toy soldier shows, or MFCA shows, the painted metal are always showcased. Sometimes at a big show you cannot even find the latest Barzso set for example. I still think some of the best figures today are done in plastic.

Walt
Click to expand...

Hi, Walt, do you mean that plastic is underrepresented in the wares that dealers have for sale, or in the exhibitions that are part of shows like ours, the MFCA show?

As for the former, it's demand that drives what you see. That's why I say, collecting plastic has been on the increase for a long time. There seems to be more demand for it, driven, I think and as some of the others have mentioned, driven by those of us who played with plastic figures as kids, and now, we want to buy back our childhood. There are definitely far more plastic figures on dealer tables than when I first went to shows in the early 90s.

As to the latter, there's no restriction on the material used for figures in our exhibition, or in the others, that I know of. It's driven by quality. In the exhibitions, unless the artist is shooting for a specific effect, and so, would use an old Marx figure, for example, he's going to select a figure with the highest degree of detail. But even having said that, many of the figures we see painted to connoisseur standards and exhibited at shows aren't metal, but resin, and sometimes even the softer plastic used on classic playset figures.

There was definitely some snobbery in the late '40s and after, as technology to produce molded plastic items became cheaper and more efficient, and plastic figures began to appear in numbers. But I think that today, it's a mischaracterization to describe it as second class citizenship, if you will. I think plastic is accepted, and the frequency with which figures appear on the market and on tables at shows, etc, is directly proportional to the current demand for plastic figures.

Prost!
Brad
 
I can understand your feelings, often one group of collectors may look down

on another group and feel they are "Stupid" to collect what they like!

Wife often gives me that look when she hears what I am comtemplating

doing.:D

Some figure collectors may look down on plastic, or rubber figures for one

reason or another......but all they need to do is check out the values of

many of those old Marx Playsets we all played with.:D

Its all in the eye of the collector.:D

I read an interesting article which said in our teens our brains are developing

and often things that are important to us then stay with us the rest of our

lives. This would explain my interest in fast cars, surfing, and the

"Beach Boys" Music to this day. On an interesting note I am current reading

"Catch A Wave" about Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys.......and much to my

suprise, he didn't surf......drove a green Cadillac......and wasn't really

interested in the entire surfing scene many of his songs were about!:eek::D
 
I collect only metal WWII, but I'm contemplating buying plastics, going to the backyard and have a battle in the dirt. I saw that BMC is making plastic KC stuff of their Iwo Jima line. Marx stuff being recast. Also there's TSSD. Very nice sculpts. Sadly, recently I was looking for cheap armymen in the toystore to shoot with my pellet gun and was surprised that they didn't have any. Took me months to find some. Apparently kids don't play with these toys anymore. I also hate when I hear moms say they don't let their kids play with toy guns and their husbands go along with it. I spent many a day being Sargeant Saunders from the Combat show. :D
 
I have a nice little collection of Britains "Eyes Right" figures and they are some of my favorite. I think their band figures are some of the nicest figures ever molded. :)

I also enjoy and own some Marx "Warriors of the World". I collected some of these as a youngster even though the ones I have now are replacements for those long gone from my youth.

I also just won on fleabay a mounted 4th Hussar that was made by SAE.

I must admit that I do like my figures to be painted be they plastic or not. :D I just like toy soldiers regardless of the material they're may from.


Chuck
 
I don't have any plastic but would buy some if the detail in the figure is good and it is painted.I think painting is the key .Most don't paint so they buy painted figures which is mostly metal.
Mark
 
I recently posted this in the 'How To' section on Plastics:
At the last PLASTIC WARRIOR show in London I asked one of the PW editors about Britains plastics. He told me he went to the British Toy and Hobby Trade Show at the Excel Centre where WBritains had a stand.
He mentioned about the plastic ranges and the sales rep said to him that 'That just the cheap stuff for the kids'.
I feel that this sums up the companies attitude in general

The point that I was trying to make is that the current owners of Britains have bought into the nonsense that the 'Blazers and slacks' brigade of metal collectors spout.
The sales rep seemed to feel contempt for the plastic range. The usual attitude of plastics are for kids - adult collectors go for metal .
I think this is in part a reaction against people outside the hobby who look at it as playing with toy soldiers. If you have figures that are unsuitable (in fact dangerous) for a child to play with then you cannot be a big kid but a mature collector.
Marx. Britains, Crescent were cheap toy for kids but the people who set up these companies actually LIKED toys, or like Roy Selwyn Smith, Ally Gee and Norman Tooth liked figures and saw plastic as an exciting new material with unlimited possibilities....
The new Britains company sees Britains 40 year plastic production as a strange abberation until they got back to metal (the 'real' thing)
You really don't get that feeling in the toy trade any more I think.
Final point in the U.K up to the mid 80s you could get toy soldiers everywhere, not just toy shops but news agents, chemists, etc.
Now you don't see Britains plastics anywhere. Toyway has now gone out of business.
If kids can't find them they wont play with them and in 20 years time what adult collectors there will be shall probably be hunting down Papo and Schielch rather than Britains and Airfix.
'Said the General of the Army " I think war is barmy"
So he threw away his gun
Now he's having much more fun
Spike Milligan
 
timpoisverylicky said:
He told me he went to the British Toy and Hobby Trade Show at the Excel Centre where WBritains had a stand.
He mentioned about the plastic ranges and the sales rep said to him that 'That just the cheap stuff for the kids'.
I feel that this sums up the companies attitude in general
Click to expand...


Well i think you should report this salesman to the WBritain Company or director because this man obvioustly didnt good person to be working in sales.
I hate when people WHO GET PAID FOR THEIR JOB,they hate doing this job,or their are bored with this job.If you do not like toy soldiers,anything around toy soldiers than go sale something else(clothes,cigaretes,newspaper,...) just do not ruin other people hobby with your bad atitude.Well at least i will tell him than in his face and than i will ask him who is his director manager so that i can talk with him to tell him how bad salesman he have.
Because WBritain also make Detail Plastic,so if their salesman can not know how to sale them than he is a bad salesman.
Also he do not know you,maybe you do buying this for your childreen,he can not know that so there is no excuse he act like this.
Than also there are people who wannt to buy plastic and there are WBritain who make them so if this salesman have problem or opinion about this he can not speak about it to tell us about his opinion if he wasnt ask to speak for.
Me as a buyer i do not need to listen the salesman opinion on something if i didnt ask him too.So obviustly this salesman was a bad salesman and it is not good for the busines.It was not a profesional.
I think this is the hoby that need a salesman who are also a collector so that when me or you come to buy toy soldiers they can tell us a lot of interesting stuff about the figures,not make us angry or sad or idiots,...so i really think you should report this man and we all will be happy if you do that because that kind of peopel wed o not need in this hoby.
 
I still keep my Britains Deetail from the Seventies and value them a lot. I am afraid I did let go of the Airfix ones and the Timpo's are not resisting the test of time, still keep some but they are breaking up.
There are also some very nice painted plastics coming from Germany, in a scale larger than 54mm, can't remember the name now but you can find them at the Michigan Toy Soldier website, check it out. Also Argentina's DSG is putting out excellent Deetail reissues!
But to be honest I have made a choice and that is to go for metal, after all I don't have the room or the money for both:(. If I had I would go for DSG and the afore-mentioned germans:p.


Paulo
 
Njja said:
On an interesting note I am current reading

"Catch A Wave" about Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys.......and much to my

suprise, he didn't surf......drove a green Cadillac......and wasn't really

interested in the entire surfing scene many of his songs were about!:eek::D
Click to expand...

John,

Did you know that their album, Pet Sounds, which is actually more Brian Wilson's than the Beach Boys, was a very influential album on the Beatles and British rock generally. The album did ok here in the US but in England it was a huge hit. The variety of sounds that Wilson introduced into the album and the production values generally changed the thinking on the way albums should be made.
 
jazzeum said:
John,

Did you know that their album, Pet Sounds, which is actually more Brian Wilson's than the Beach Boys, was a very influential album on the Beatles and British rock generally. The album did ok here in the US but in England it was a huge hit. The variety of sounds that Wilson introduced into the album and the production values generally changed the thinking on the way albums should be made.
Click to expand...


By prices I would say plastic figures are well into the hobby,,,the important thing being Brian wilson was the figurehead as to the creative side of the beachboys rather than the hype,,his problems also most likley kept him out of the water for his own safety. Dennis Wilson said to be the true waterman of the group came to his end there. I always preferred the surf sound rather then the acclaimed pet sounds album,besides enjoying Jan and Dean. As an aging veteran of the central florida beaches ,Atlantic side of course ,Im happy the new tech includes beach cams ,,Cars,surf and girls ,dude, I may even give the "new" beachboys a chance led by last man standing,Mike Love.
 
jazzeum said:
John,

Did you know that their album, Pet Sounds, which is actually more Brian Wilson's than the Beach Boys, was a very influential album on the Beatles and British rock generally. The album did ok here in the US but in England it was a huge hit. The variety of sounds that Wilson introduced into the album and the production values generally changed the thinking on the way albums should be made.
Click to expand...


..................................................................................................

Yes I just read about that in the book. Brian Wilson was considered by many

a musical genius, and like many artistic geniuses......

I am enjoying the book and realizing how lucky and fortunate many of us

have been!

Often we take our situations for granted I believe. Brian Wilson's ancestors

all struggled for success here in America and had hard lives. Even his father

lost an eye in an industrial accident.

Life isn't easy, but every now and then its nice to sit back and appreciate

what you have!:)

I don't think Brian or his brothers ever really got that opportunity.:eek:
 
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