XXX Corps Information Needed? (1 Viewer)

[arnhem44mad]

Hey guys, can anyone give me a complete list of vehicles which were included in the regiments involved in XXX Corps in Operation Market Garden?
I am hoping to eventually get a model of each vehicle used

So Far in king and country models I have:

M10 Tank Destroyer
Sherman Firefly
Sherman with short barrell
Bren gun carrier
Cromwell
Daimler Armoured Car
25lb gun
Quad +limber
Ambulance
Dingo Scout Car
Churchill
Truck - Bedford
Stuart
Staghound Armoured Car

And will soon be adding an Austin Tilly

Would all of thes evehicles have been present during this operation, as I am unsure on several; Churchill, Staghound, Quad

And does anyone know roughly how many vehicles were in XXX Corps?

Thanks a lot, Scott

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Scott,

You really asked a good question here and I am sort of surprised no one has answered yet. You also showed me where I have a hole in my data regarding OFB for the British Forces in WWII. Have a ton on the Germans and US. Funny how that works. Anyway, here is what I do have: The source book for this information is The Tanks, The History of the Royal Tank Regiment, Volume II By Captain B.H. Liddell Hart. the break down of XXX Corps was The Guards Division, 11 Armoured Division and 50th Division. There were several cross attachments for this operation and from what I can tell 11th Division was attached to another Corps for the bulk of Market Garden. The numbers of vehicles is slightly in flux for this one as well due to the cross attachments but I believe that in the Guards Division there was 63 Light Tanks for recce work, 205 Medium Tanks and 24 Close Support Tanks as well as 25 AAA Tanks and 8 Artillery Observation Tanks. From what I can tell there were also several RTRs running around in this sector and its fuzzy to me who they worked for. The Medium Tanks were likely M4A4s (I say this because of a note I found about the Irish Guards having them) and probably Cromwells the Close Support Tanks would have been heavy armored and likely Churchills III and they had various Engineer Vehicles as well as Crocodiles and other interesting vehicles. I will let you know if the numbers are different or rather if I find some more sources for the order of battle.
As for vehicles like Dingos, Daimlers,and Staghounds I am sure there were plenty. Just dont have any info on them yet.

Hope this is helpful.

Dave

 

[binder001]

First, for info on the XXX Corps order of battle, see;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Market_Garden_order_of_battle

or

http://www.pegasusarchive.org/arnhem/order_xxx.htm

As mentioned, the most common medium ("cruiser") tank would be the Sherman V (M4A4) with 75mm gun or the Sherman VC Firelfy with 17-pounder. The British term "close support" tank refers to a tank carrying a howitzer for HE fire versus a gun for direct fire, similar to the battalion assault gun platoon in a US tank battalion of the time. These might have been Sherman 1B (M4 with 105mm howitzer) as there was no howitzer version of the M4A4. They could also have been British CS tanks. AT regiments would have had 17-pounders, either on M10 ("Achilles") or Valentine chassis ("Archer") as well as towed guns. There were still unmodified M10s ("Wolverines") around also. Division recce would have had Cromwells backed with armored cars and/or Stuarts of various models. Divisional artillery would have been based around the 25-pounder, either towed or SP ("Sexton"). Backing them up would have been an assortment of Corps and Army artillery regiments using British 5.5in guns, US Long Toms, and various British guns and howitzers. I don't know the breakdown of the armoured cars, but many regiments each had different models. Trucks would have been a conglomeration of British and US types but probably leaning to the British types.

Don't forget that XVIII Airborne Corps also had vehicles trying to use the same roads as XXX Corps. Despite popular impression, each US airborne division had a sizeable ground element that was to be trucked forward as roads became available.

Gary B

 

[binder001]

See also;
http://www.flamesofwar.com/?tabid=53&art_id=399

This table is based on an excellent table of 21 Army Group Tank strength. For Market-Garden one has to "interpolate" between the June and December figures, but there you have the main types of tanks present before and after the campaign. This also verifies that the 8th Armoured Brigade was a Sherman-equipped outfit. So realtively few Churchills were readily available in XXX Corps.

The British "Stuarts" at that point incvluded various models ranging from the old M3, through the M3A3 to the M5A1 ("Stuart VI"). The Shermans would be primarily Sherman V types (US M4A4) but might include M4A2s and M4s

Gary B.

 

[arnhem44mad]

Do either of you know if any of the armoured divisions in XXX Corps would have had sherman crabs, asI know there were dozers!

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi

Thats a good question. I believe there were Crab Tanks with the 11th Armored Division but I cant confirm it. I found a reference to them in the battles that followed Market Garden so I feel confident that there were some there just cant say for sure they were with XXX Corps. I will see if I can dig any further info up on them.

Dave

 

[arnhem44mad]

Hi

Thats a good question. I believe there were Crab Tanks with the 11th Armored Division but I cant confirm it. I found a reference to them in the battles that followed Market Garden so I feel confident that there were some there just cant say for sure they were with XXX Corps. I will see if I can dig any further info up on them.

Dave

Thanks mate!

 

[binder001]

Whether or not Sherman Crabs were in the actual divisional TO&Es, there may have have been some available. 79th Armoured Division operated the British specialized armor, but it was a division in name only, it did not fight as one unit. It was an administrative umbrella for units that were scattered throughout 21 Army Group. The Crabs and other "funnies" were assigned to a corps, division or brigade as required. Somewhere is likely a combat record of the Crab units that would show their various attachments.

Gary B.

 

[uksubs]

Whether or not Sherman Crabs were in the actual divisional TO&Es, there may have have been some available. 79th Armoured Division operated the British specialized armor, but it was a division in name only, it did not fight as one unit. It was an administrative umbrella for units that were scattered throughout 21 Army Group. The Crabs and other "funnies" were assigned to a corps, division or brigade as required. Somewhere is likely a combat record of the Crab units that would show their various attachments.

Gary B.

Gary spot on with the Funnies , even the US army asked for them to be used on the attack on the German held harbours , are be using them in my Market garden dio