Redcoat question (1 Viewer)

Blowtorch

Sergeant Major
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if one wants to make a stationary firing line, say with BR41 & 48, what would be used for the officer giving orders? Stick Cornwallis behind them? Shouldn't there be a stationary officer with a sword? Now that I think about it, we would need stationary everything...flags, drummers, etc.
 
It would be great to have in the future a similiar selection of Redcoats in all stationary positions. That way you could have a full set up with a firing and supporting marching line.

For now, I suppose you could use the BR037 shouting sergeant figure with a firing line. As if he is walking around the side of the line from the rear....

Of course, the Hessian figures make a good firing line with the BR063 pointing sergeant figure with them.

Noah
 
There does seem to be a shortage of officers and sergeants in the correct poses for many of the musket era series. I usually just try to find and adequate substitute or leave the figure off altogether. You could just say he jogged off to the nearby shrubbery to answer natures call or got deep sixed with the first volley, aim for the officers first and all that.:)
 
If I am not mistaken, an officer commanding a platoon of men locked on to fire would have his place at the right end of the line, a few paces forward, facing to the left along the line.

Tradition includes a figure in their British Army of the Seven Years War catalog, but he's cast in such a way that he can only be placed at the left end of the line, looking to the right.

I may be confusing the British manuals of arms with the Prussian, though. In the Prussian army, the officers definitely took their postion a couple of paces in front of and to the right of their commands, to direct fire. It was a perilous position, in any case, since the next platoon was drawn up immediately next to your command, and the volleys of both troops went whizzing past, front and back.

Prost!
Brad
 
There does seem to be a shortage of officers and sergeants in the correct poses for many of the musket era series. I usually just try to find and adequate substitute or leave the figure off altogether. You could just say he jogged off to the nearby shrubbery to answer natures call or got deep sixed with the first volley, aim for the officers first and all that.:)
Thankfully we do not have that problem with Napoleonics; 1st Legion has great mounted and dismounted officers for this purpose and others.
 
I use this figure at the right hand side of my line and although he is facing the wrong way just assume he is looking at something on the battlefield in that direction!

In the Pyle picture of Bunker Hill there is an officer to the right of the line and also behind the line in front of the drummers.

Thinking about it it must have taken some balls to have been a British officer in the conflicts of the AWI, because they must have latched on pretty quickly that they were being particularly targetted and that chances are with all the muskets and rifles concentrated on them that at least one was gonna hit.
 

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I use this figure at the right hand side of my line and although he is facing the wrong way just assume he is looking at something on the battlefield in that direction!

In the Pyle picture of Bunker Hill there is an officer to the right of the line and also behind the line in front of the drummers.

Thinking about it it must have taken some balls to have been a British officer in the conflicts of the AWI, because they must have latched on pretty quickly that they were being particularly targetted and that chances are with all the muskets and rifles concentrated on them that at least one was gonna hit.
According to Dundas (the British Bible for this), the commanding officer was on the extreme right of the front line with his sargent in the line behind. The second in command was on the left side of the line with his sargent behind. Also each rank was one pace from the one in front and behind and each file was lightly touching or about 22 inches per man (e.g. 60 men in 2 ranks would cover a front of 18 yards). Thus your officer would be correct to be shown on the left if the commanding officer had been downed.
 
According to Dundas (the British Bible for this), the commanding officer was on the extreme right of the front line with his sargent in the line behind. The second in command was on the left side of the line with his sargent behind. Also each rank was one pace from the one in front and behind and each file was lightly touching or about 22 inches per man (e.g. 60 men in 2 ranks would cover a front of 18 yards). Thus your officer would be correct to be shown on the left if the commanding officer had been downed.

That rescues the Tradition figure, too, excellent! He's not the CO but one of the junior officers.
 
According to Dundas (the British Bible for this), the commanding officer was on the extreme right of the front line with his sargent in the line behind. The second in command was on the left side of the line with his sargent behind. Also each rank was one pace from the one in front and behind and each file was lightly touching or about 22 inches per man (e.g. 60 men in 2 ranks would cover a front of 18 yards). Thus your officer would be correct to be shown on the left if the commanding officer had been downed.

Thanks for the info thats really useful to know as I wasn't sure exactly where the sargent should be and also didn't realise the positioning of the second in command. :)
 
Without opening a can of worms on the inaccuracy of 'The Patriot', this shot shows atleast 4 officers along the line.

Is this shot accurate in terms of having that many officers in an advancing line or should the officers be at the ends of the line only or does that only apply only for a firing line and those officers in front would fall in when the line open fire? :confused:
 

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Without opening a can of worms on the inaccuracy of 'The Patriot', this shot shows atleast 4 officers along the line.

Is this shot accurate in terms of having that many officers in an advancing line or should the officers be at the ends of the line only or does that only apply only for a firing line and those officers in front would fall in when the line open fire? :confused:
In Dundas manual, the extra line officers and sargents are shown behind their companies. Dickinson's manual, another source of the time, shows an open order advance (two versus one pace rank seperation) with an officer for each side and one in the center for advances, with sargents behind and between each company. His closed order advance is the same as Dumas but with more sargents behind. For both, the regimental CO and his exec (usually a colonel and lt. colonel) were in the middle between two companies just in front of the ensign color bearers and their sargents. Dickinson also notes that some variations in regimental formations were acceptable and then we have the question of how the practice and the stress of combat changed the principles. It seems safe to say that that Patriot variation was proper at least in part.
 
You're right, the extra company officers were ranged behind the company as a reserve, and also to catch or stop any men who tried to break ranks to flee.

The spontoon was a useful tool for that purpose. It could be laid across the backs of a rank of men, to push them forward, and it could also be used to skewer a man who tried to run.

Prost!
Brad
 
Without opening a can of worms on the inaccuracy of 'The Patriot', this shot shows atleast 4 officers along the line.

Is this shot accurate in terms of having that many officers in an advancing line or should the officers be at the ends of the line only or does that only apply only for a firing line and those officers in front would fall in when the line open fire? :confused:


I really considered the movie "The Patriot" more of a documentary than a movie - the Highly talented and non-biased Actor/Director Mel Gibson - seems to have a firm grasp on British History. I have looked in awe of the accurate films about the British Empire which Mr. Gibson has done.

I believe Rob shares my view on this talented individual.

;)
 
I really considered the movie "The Patriot" more of a documentary than a movie - the Highly talented and non-biased Actor/Director Mel Gibson - seems to have a firm grasp on British History. I have looked in awe of the accurate films about the British Empire which Mr. Gibson has done.

I believe Rob shares my view on this talented individual.

;)

LOL!

Don't you like his documentaries on Australia, Ron? Like "Mad Max"?

I was especially surprised to learn that militia in the Carolina backwoods somehow travelled forward in time to Germany in the 1880's, bought a bunch of Heyde and other makers' figures, then went back to 1780 to melt them down for musket balls.

Prost!
Brad
 
I detect a whiff of sarcasm in these postings about Mel Gibson. Next, I guess, someone will impune his take on Scottish history and the H.M.S. Bounty. Oh, the agony! -- lancer
 
I detect a whiff of sarcasm in these postings about Mel Gibson. Next, I guess, someone will impune his take on Scottish history and the H.M.S. Bounty. Oh, the agony! -- lancer

No, not me! I was piling on with Ron, perhaps, but I enjoy Gibson's performances as an actor, even in the horrible, horrible movie with Helen Hunt, where he turned all sensitive. And "The Patriot" 's faults aren't Gibson's, but the director's. And I don't know if "Braveheart" 's historically dubious points can be laid at Gibson's door, either.

Of course, he has baggage, in the eyes of the mainstream media, because of his remarks when arrested for DUI, and for his father's adherence to a schismatic church, so that serious analysis of his work is often now dismissed right away with an attitude that he should be dismissed as "right wing", pre-empting any further discussion. Such is the world we live in. "Four legs good, two legs bad", and so on.
 
No, not me! I was piling on with Ron, perhaps, but I enjoy Gibson's performances as an actor, even in the horrible, horrible movie with Helen Hunt, where he turned all sensitive. And "The Patriot" 's faults aren't Gibson's, but the director's. And I don't know if "Braveheart" 's historically dubious points can be laid at Gibson's door, either.

Of course, he has baggage, in the eyes of the mainstream media, because of his remarks when arrested for DUI, and for his father's adherence to a schismatic church, so that serious analysis of his work is often now dismissed right away with an attitude that he should be dismissed as "right wing", pre-empting any further discussion. Such is the world we live in. "Four legs good, two legs bad", and so on.
I do agree about Gibson, he is very talented when he puts his mind to it. Unlike many, I have no need to share the political or social preferences or of an artist to enjoy their work and can appreciate their craft even if their conduct is stupid to me. Of course just because I disagree with someone doesn't mean I can't get along with them; there is far too much divisiveness in the world as it is lately. One would almost think we are regressing as a species. Just be easy on the four legs mate, I am rather fond of those me self. ;) You can criticize my politics or my religion, just don't go messin with me furry friends.:D
 
If one wants to watch a good action movie, try Gibson's "Apocalypto". NO political message and a good (if borrowed story line) and good acting. It is subtitled but it is a minor distraction. Just MHO. -- lancer
 
I assume by Rob's silence on this matter we can take that he agrees with Mel Gibson's version of British History ... snicker, snicker, snicker ... :eek::eek:
 
Because its a lovely Sunday morning and birds are singing,we beat Italy in the Rugby,and i don't wish to get so angry i head back to the bell tower with automatic weapons and hand grenades.....Mel Gibson is the best human being ever to have walked on the earth.His films are stunning portraits of Historical accuracy and its quite clear to me that the British nation as a whole is entirely responsible for every ill in the world from the the Biblical flood right up to the Dukes of Hazzard.

Was that convincing Ron;)

Rob
 

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