Redcoat question (2 Viewers)

[cantinetozzo]

Eh eh ...here too is a sunny morning (but Italy isn't so sunny as you imagine) i'm a bit angry for my football team..home draw with Reggina...Becks didn't play so well, Kaka' with an injury but the field was horrible!Regarding Mel , i'm with The Baron , i like his films , The Patriot it's (apart from his historical liberties...) a bad movie, too long ..too many dramatic moments..i like Braveheart but i've seen it at 16, i've seen many good (and best)movie since then..and all his early films..and We Were Soldiers...i think is greatly underrated..

 

[Capitolron]

Rob - I knew deep down inside you really like Mel Gibson !

 

[Spitfrnd]

Sorry Rob, certainly nothing personal to you or your great country, the history of which I very much admire but... I really like the Patriot and do watch it again from time to time. The photography is quite good the story is interesting, the acting is rather good and I enjoy seeing those weapons in action. I think no harm is caused by its inaccuracies. Congratulatons on the rugby win and go on and enjoy your pint mate.

 

[bromhead]

If one wants to watch a good action movie, try Gibson's "Apocalypto". NO political message and a good (if borrowed story line) and good acting. It is subtitled but it is a minor distraction. Just MHO. -- lancer

Quite a film but I can think of a few ex wifes who would still be in the well

 

[Rob]

Sorry Rob, certainly nothing personal to you or your great country, the history of which I very much admire but... I really like the Patriot and do watch it again from time to time. The photography is quite good the story is interesting, the acting is rather good and I enjoy seeing those weapons in action. I think no harm is caused by its inaccuracies. Congratulatons on the rugby win and go on and enjoy your pint mate.

No probs mate,we are all entitled to our own opinion and i don't want to get too heavy about it.I've enjoyed some of his films to be honest.I guess also my view of Gibson is maybe coloured by what he said when arrested for drunk driving.Again don't want to get too heavy but it does make you wonder?.


The only point i have to disagree with you is about inaccuracies in films.Trouble is not everyone is as well rounded and grounded as all of us on this forum.I had a graphic example of this a couple of years back.An Australian couple approached me at the museum and started a conversation.The lady was very nice and was praising the museum.Then the guy spoke up.His first words to me were;

'Yeah,always hated you Brits ever since i saw Gallipoli'

Resisting the urge to use the traditional Anglo Saxon reply and invite the bigoted,racist,moron to leave my country i simply said;

'And you believed everything you saw in that film did you'?

'Er,yeah'

'You don't think there was a teeny weeny chance that there may have been the merest hint of an attempt at an an anti British message in the film,and that certain facts were plain wrong'

'Well they wouldn't make the film if it was wrong would they'?

And there we have it in a nutshell.Some people do believe everything they see.You know if Gibson made a film called ' All the terrible things that happened because of the British Empire' recalling the cruelty,hardship and atrocities as a result of that empire,and it was factually correct,i'd have no problem with it.But hey he's not the only one to have made iffy history films and he won't be the last.Also i enjoyed 'The Passion' although i wouldn't want to see it again.

I do love the fact that here on the forum we get a whole range of differing views.For instance i know my Mate UK Reb and many others are big fans of Mr John Wayne and think him THE Western star.Although i really like some of his Westerns 'True Grit' 'The Shootist' and 'Sons of Katie Elder',for me Clint Eastwood is No1.Just watched 'Outlaw Josey Wales' for about the third time in a week,superb film.

Right i'd better go and celebrate our victory as it will be short lived i fear,next week i think we are going to get Tonked by Wales

Cheers

Rob

 

[theBaron]

Sorry Rob, certainly nothing personal to you or your great country, the history of which I very much admire but... I really like the Patriot and do watch it again from time to time. The photography is quite good the story is interesting, the acting is rather good and I enjoy seeing those weapons in action. I think no harm is caused by its inaccuracies. Congratulatons on the rugby win and go on and enjoy your pint mate.

Very good point about "The Patriot", and it was when I thought about those things you mention, that I was able to get around its historical accuracy (or lack of it ) and enjoy it as a movie. The light went on for me about "The Patriot", actually, when I saw "Northwest Passage" again on TCM. That's another one that is a great movie, a historical drama, not a documentary.

Who knows, I might be able to enjoy "Midway" on the same basis, too, someday.

Prost!
Brad


PS-No, no, I can't. I'm sorry, but I can't get past that stupid tacked-on romance between Charlton Heston's son and the Nisei girl. It's just unnecessary. And the Japanese should have spoken Japanese, with subtitles.

 

[Louis Badolato]

No probs mate,we are all entitled to our own opinion and i don't want to get too heavy about it.I've enjoyed some of his films to be honest.I guess also my view of Gibson is maybe coloured by what he said when arrested for drunk driving.Again don't want to get too heavy but it does make you wonder?.


The only point i have to disagree with you is about inaccuracies in films.Trouble is not everyone is as well rounded and grounded as all of us on this forum.I had a graphic example of this a couple of years back.An Australian couple approached me at the museum and started a conversation.The lady was very nice and was praising the museum.Then the guy spoke up.His first words to me were;

'Yeah,always hated you Brits ever since i saw Gallipoli'

Resisting the urge to use the traditional Anglo Saxon reply and invite the bigoted,racist,moron to leave my country i simply said;

'And you believed everything you saw in that film did you'?

'Er,yeah'

'You don't think there was a teeny weeny chance that there may have been the merest hint of an attempt at an an anti British message in the film,and that certain facts were plain wrong'

'Well they wouldn't make the film if it was wrong would they'?

And there we have it in a nutshell.Some people do believe everything they see.You know if Gibson made a film called ' All the terrible things that happened because of the British Empire' recalling the cruelty,hardship and atrocities as a result of that empire,and it was factually correct,i'd have no problem with it.But hey he's not the only one to have made iffy history films and he won't be the last.Also i enjoyed 'The Passion' although i wouldn't want to see it again.

I do love the fact that here on the forum we get a whole range of differing views.For instance i know my Mate UK Reb and many others are big fans of Mr John Wayne and think him THE Western star.Although i really like some of his Westerns 'True Grit' 'The Shootist' and 'Sons of Katie Elder',for me Clint Eastwood is No1.Just watched 'Outlaw Josey Wales' for about the third time in a week,superb film.

Right i'd better go and celebrate our victory as it will be short lived i fear,next week i think we are going to get Tonked by Wales

Cheers

Rob

Rob,

I certainly agree with you that inaccuracies in films convey often terrible misinformation to a general public which in some (if not the majority of) cases lacks a firm background in history.

The pathetic part is, if Gibson wanted to do a historically accurate film depicting a British officer as a heartless and barbaric murderer, he needed to look no further than Bannister Tarleton. Had he accurately portrayed Tarleton, he probably could have made a more startling film than "Patriot". Film makers never cease to make me shake my head in disbelief.

 

[Spitfrnd]

...The only point i have to disagree with you is about inaccuracies in films.Trouble is not everyone is as well rounded and grounded as all of us on this forum.I had a graphic example of this a couple of years back.An Australian couple approached me at the museum and started a conversation.The lady was very nice and was praising the museum.Then the guy spoke up.His first words to me were;

'Yeah,always hated you Brits ever since i saw Gallipoli'

Resisting the urge to use the traditional Anglo Saxon reply and invite the bigoted,racist,moron to leave my country i simply said;

'And you believed everything you saw in that film did you'?

'Er,yeah'

'You don't think there was a teeny weeny chance that there may have been the merest hint of an attempt at an an anti British message in the film,and that certain facts were plain wrong'

'Well they wouldn't make the film if it was wrong would they'?

And there we have it in a nutshell.Some people do believe everything they see.You know if Gibson made a film called ' All the terrible things that happened because of the British Empire' recalling the cruelty,hardship and atrocities as a result of that empire,and it was factually correct,i'd have no problem with it.But hey he's not the only one to have made iffy history films and he won't be the last.....
...

Well mate, all I can say again is this reminds me of the old basic training mantra about rifles and guns. To paraphrase: "This is a documentary and this is a movie; one is for history and one is for fun." Frankly, I could care less about the opinions of anyone ignorant enough (intentionally or otherwise) to take his history from a movie; I would just offer him a deal on the London bridge. Anyone who enjoys history should appreciate "any thing" they get right in a movie and count themselves fortunate that they know the things they do not. BTW, I really do not think there was any attempt at an anti-British message in the Patriot, rather the classic bad guy versus good guy theme. In fact, other than the Dragoon who was the intended bad guy, I rather liked all the other British characters and remember it was Mel's character that spoke vehemently and articulately against the AWI. Anyway, just my opinion FWIW.

 

[Rob]

Hey guys,i take both your points. I don't care what film makers say good or bad as long as its true.God knows my country has made huge mistakes in its History but its not all bad.Am really looking forward to that new forthcoming war film 'Passing Patton by'!.It shows how Monty rescued the 101st from Bastogne after his hugely successful operation in Arnhem

Rob

 

[Louis Badolato]

Hey guys,i take both your points. I don't care what film makers say good or bad as long as its true.God knows my country has made huge mistakes in its History but its not all bad.Am really looking forward to that new forthcoming war film 'Passing Patton by'!.It shows how Monty rescued the 101st from Bastogne after his hugely successful operation in Arnhem

Rob

I'm going to sick a bunch of Aussies who just saw the movie "Gallipoli" on you, Rob!!

 

[Rob]

I'm going to sick a bunch of Aussies who just saw the movie "Gallipoli" on you, Rob!!

I'll get the beers in then mate!

 

[Cornwallis]

The pathetic part is, if Gibson wanted to do a historically accurate film depicting a British officer as a heartless and barbaric murderer, he needed to look no further than Bannister Tarleton. Had he accurately portrayed Tarleton, he probably could have made a more startling film than "Patriot". Film makers never cease to make me shake my head in disbelief.

Try this link this which I believe is a US based website that I found very interesting concerning Banastre Tarleton.

http://home.golden.net/~marg/bansite/btbanvswill.html

 

[theBaron]

Try this link this which I believe is a US based website that I found very interesting concerning Banastre Tarleton.

http://home.golden.net/~marg/bansite/btbanvswill.html

Interesting site, M'Lo'd. One more piece of evidence to support the statement that "The Patriot" is an adventure set against the background of the Revolutionary War, and not necessarily an accurate account of things that happened then.

Interesting that referenced website is, too, because the image of Tarleton as a ruthless commander of irregular troops has certainly been carried on in reference materials. Of course, that image is of a piece with the popular image of the Hessians, too. When we get beyond the surface of that story, and read actual contemporary accounts, we find that the reputation is underserved, and goes back beyond the beginning of the falling out between Britain and her colonies, to the 1740's, when the Crown employed hired German units on home soil.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Louis Badolato]

Try this link this which I believe is a US based website that I found very interesting concerning Banastre Tarleton.

http://home.golden.net/~marg/bansite/btbanvswill.html

I don't know where that website puported to get it's "facts", but everything I have read about Tarleton contradicts it. For example (1) he cornered 300 Continentals in a small town and took no prisoners whatsoever, despite calls for quarter, hence the well known American phrase "Tarleton's Quarter" meaning "take no prisoners"; and (2) he sent a major under his command to threaten a group of backwoodsmen that the Major and his command would massacre their families if they didn't surrender, resulting in the backwoodsmen's cornering of said major on a mountain, and that major and his command's massacre (to cries from the backwoodsmen of "Tarleton's Quarter"). If Tarleton's men intended to carry out the threat that an entire community of women and children would be massacred, I would have to say he qualifies as the nastiest British officer I've ever heard of in the AWI.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Hey guys,i take both your points. I don't care what film makers say good or bad as long as its true.God knows my country has made huge mistakes in its History but its not all bad.Am really looking forward to that new forthcoming war film 'Passing Patton by'!.It shows how Monty rescued the 101st from Bastogne after his hugely successful operation in Arnhem

Rob

Ah well best of luck mate finding cinematic rifles among the guns of Hollywood. I would enjoy that movie if it has some good acting, direction and film work.

Interestingly it would seem that the Patriot's central theme has some good historical basis from what Louis has noted about Tarleton. The movie in no way suggests that the entire British army behaved like that, just one rogue officer. Actually, that is pretty bloody accurate for a movie.